theary

[ultimate king mickey]

Ven- Soras dad or grandpa.
Terra- ralated to riku in some way or is another part of Xehanort the chooser of who the keyblade goes 2 according to this vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxfx1BloMD0
Aqua- kairis grandma in her prime. that explains her part in kh1.
Xehanort- a true keyblade weilder.
now i have 2 piece together a story

[ShadowXIV]

i dont think that Ven is Soras father or grandfather because te game is only 10 years before so that eliminates Aqua being Kairis grandmother
but i agree with the thing about Xehanort because alot of the evidence seems to lead that way

[axel(bond of flame)]

Ven- Soras dad or grandpa.
Terra- ralated to riku in some way or is another part of Xehanort the chooser of who the keyblade goes 2 according to this vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxfx1BloMD0
Aqua- kairis grandma in her prime. that explains her part in kh1.
Xehanort- a true keyblade weilder.
now i have 2 piece together a story

it cant be his grandpa
its only 10 years in the past

[Roxas[Nobody]]

omg i been say tht grandma thing since july and now ppl start using it...lol

[axel(bond of flame)]

u mean grandpa

[Roxas[Nobody]]

u mean grandpa

no kairi's grandma

but i could be her mom like were was kairis mom when she returned to hollow bastion

[lionsbarrage]

it's possible, i would like to see how they are related aside from being of the same element.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

it's possible, i would like to see how they are related aside from being of the same element.

well what about the sora - ven thing
i did make a thread about it but no one looked at it yet

[lionsbarrage]

i wouldn't know, for any of them, just have to keep waiting to find out .

[Roxas[Nobody]]

well i think sora and ven are related like family wise maybe an older brother
idk i just wish i knew what the chasers are it would make things more clear to me

[lionsbarrage]

if we were to find out, i think it would just raise even more questions then there were.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

yea but it would answer some
like if a person can have a chaser like a heartless or a nobody then ven would mostly be sora's chaser
and maybe sumone chaser is idential to there nobodies which would explain the roxas and ven then
and y sora name means sky and ven name mean wind and there names so similar

[lionsbarrage]

i dunno, i mean even if he was sora's chaser hes like a lot older at the time this occured, and how is a chaser produced?

[ShadowXIV]

nooo not grandma or grandpa
only 10 years in the past!!
sora and riku are 4
uggh

[Kairi]

Why does everyone have to be related to Sora, Kairi or Riku in this game?

[Ashen Lionheart]

Terra looks like he is old enough to be the father of a four year old child at the time of Birth by Sleep. Maybe he's Sora's father. They both have brown hair, after all...

[Roxas[Nobody]]

nooo not grandma or grandpa
only 10 years in the past!!
sora and riku are 4
uggh

actually sora and kairi are 5 and riku's 6

to ashen: but what about the ven and sora then its terra and riku who are connected not terra and sora

[Togo]

actually sora and kairi are 5 and riku's 6

to ashen: but what about the ven and sora then its terra and riku who are connected not terra and sora

no they would be four and riku would be five it is ten years before kingdom hearts 1. it is spelt theory.I do not agree with this theory because ven is connected to sora not related to him.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

no they would be four and riku would be five it is ten years before kingdom hearts 1. it is spelt theory.I do not agree with this theory because ven is connected to sora not related to him.

oo i was thinkn kh2

yea becuz
sora-sky and ven-wind
riku-land and terra-earth
kairi-sea and aqua-water

[Togo]

oo i was thinkn kh2

yea becuz
sora-sky and ven-wind
riku-land and terra-earth
kairi-sea and aqua-water

remember ven is just an alias so it could be different.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

remember ven is just an alias so it could be different.

true but it would still be part of wind

[axel(bond of flame)]

nooo not grandma or grandpa
only 10 years in the past!!
sora and riku are 4
uggh
soras 5
rikus 6

[ultimate king mickey]

to everyone here they could be grandma and grandpa. they could be about 45. its a japan game japanese ppl stay active like there whole life

[Roxas[Nobody]]

yea but they dont look old
and its 10 year in the past, so it couldnt be kairis grandma because tht flashback kairi had was about 10 or more year in the past so it couldnt be her grandma cuz her grandma looked older then aqua

[lionsbarrage]

seriously 10 years does not go from young looking to pruneface.

[TerraT3]

that guy was terra and you may be right but if ven i related to roxas that mean ven is a nobody casuse sora is the actual person

[Roxas[Nobody]]

that guy was terra and you may be right but if ven i related to roxas that mean ven is a nobody casuse sora is the actual person

no ur wrong how would sora have and other nobody one tht was created b4 the heartless came back and one tht is older then the actual person(sora)

maybe he is a chaser but we dont know what they are

[TerraT3]

you need to clafiy roxas

[Ashen Lionheart]

The concept of any of the Birth by Sleep characters being biologically related to the Kingdom Hearts characters is ludicrous, except for Terra, and even then it is unlikely. So...no. Just, no.

[ultimate king mickey]

The concept of any of the Birth by Sleep characters being biologically related to the Kingdom Hearts characters is ludicrous, except for Terra, and even then it is unlikely. So...no. Just, no.

at the moment almost anything is possible

[axel(bond of flame)]

Ven- Soras dad or grandpa.
Terra- ralated to riku in some way or is another part of Xehanort the chooser of who the keyblade goes 2 according to this vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxfx1BloMD0
Aqua- kairis grandma in her prime. that explains her part in kh1.
Xehanort- a true keyblade weilder.
now i have 2 piece together a story

it could be his dad cuz
nomura said that if u no the connection between sora & roxas u will no who ven is
& there is a connnection between roxas & ven

[lionsbarrage]

I dont think theres any blood connections betweeen any of them, as in one of the knights in relation to either Sora, Riku, and Kairi.

[Half-Hearted]

if ven is 15 while sora is 5 how can they be father and son

[lionsbarrage]

we dont know ven's age, i dont think its that young but still too young to be his father.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

yea u cant produce sperm tht young specially strong enough to have a kid
plus if he had a kid at ten ewww

i dont think ven is soras brother or father
but roxas jus got vens body sum how and ven and sora got connected

[lionsbarrage]

thats like the only thing i would be convicned to believe in the relation.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

thats like the only thing i would be convicned to believe in the relation.

what brotherhood
ppl dont have to me related to have and connection
aqua doesnt have to be kairi's mom
ven doesnt have to be sora dad
sora and kairi are cconnected are they related by blood no

i think there connected(sora and ven) both by roxas(theory)
when sora and roxas reunited the part of roxas tht was ven went into sora
Note: sora's new incredible power in kh2

[lionsbarrage]

i dont really buy that still, but what was i saying is relation as in connection, not how related. I dont think are related by blood.

[Ashen Lionheart]

what brotherhood
ppl dont have to me related to have and connection
aqua doesnt have to be kairi's mom
ven doesnt have to be sora dad
sora and kairi are cconnected are they related by blood no

i think there connected(sora and ven) both by roxas(theory)
when sora and roxas reunited the part of roxas tht was ven went into sora
Note: sora's new incredible power in kh2

What "new" powers? You spend the whole game getting your old ones back. By the end of the game, you're finally starting to get stronger than you were in the first place. The only exception is Sora's new forms, and those are derived from the power of his Heart and the power of his friends' Hearts. Roxas, Sora's Body and Soul, has nothing to do with this.

[lionsbarrage]

yeah, plus thats just the action stuff, which doesnt really coincide with what he cna do in the storyline .

[Roxas[Nobody]]

What "new" powers? You spend the whole game getting your old ones back. By the end of the game, you're finally starting to get stronger than you were in the first place. The only exception is Sora's new forms, and those are derived from the power of his Heart and the power of his friends' Hearts. Roxas, Sora's Body and Soul, has nothing to do with this.

sora's fight style is way different there different abilities
and SOUL has nothin to do wit the game where is this soul stuff coming from

[lionsbarrage]

yeah sora has his soul in tact already, even before Roxas.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

if sora didnt his soul
moving he be living in Roxas

[Ashen Lionheart]

sora's fight style is way different there different abilities
and SOUL has nothin to do wit the game where is this soul stuff coming from


The three elements that compose life...the heart, the soul, the body.
When life loses the heart, what happens to the leftover soul and body?

When the soul leaves the body, which it lives in as a vessel, life dies.
But if the heart is removed, what happens?

Even if the heart is separated from the body, life is not destroyed.
The heart simply disappears into the darkness.

That's where this soul stuff is coming from. The Body and Soul are what makes up a Nobody. And a Body without a Soul is, as I have said time and again, a cadaver. So Roxas has Sora's Soul, and Sora is nothing but a Heart, just as before Kairi restored him he was nothing but a Heartless.

[lionsbarrage]

Sora still had his soul, a body minus the osul is what makes up a nobody, soul is a new thing yet to be explained in detail so far.

[Ashen Lionheart]

Let's look at this part again.


When the soul leaves the body, which it lives in as a vessel, life dies.


Therefore, under the grounds that Roxas is not dead, he must have Sora's Soul.

[lionsbarrage]

U just contradicted urself because then Sora would be dead as well.

[Ashen Lionheart]

The Body requires the Soul to live. Clearly, however, the Heart does not, as otherwise the Heartless would all be dead. Sora, as a Heart with no Body, requires no Soul.

And yes, I know it seems as though he has a Body, but it seemed like Ansem the Dark had a Body too, but he didn't; he was a Heartless.

[lionsbarrage]

but Sora does have a body, and SO does Roxas so in fact the soul doesnt have to do with that normally,

[Ashen Lionheart]

Sora does not have a Body. Neither do the Heartless.

[lionsbarrage]

Sora does have a body, i dont know how that can be any clearer.

[Ashen Lionheart]

Okay. So Sora has a Body. What's Roxas made out of?

[lionsbarrage]

I cant really say, maybe it maybe 2 bodies can be brought up, just in different ways.

[Ashen Lionheart]

So Sora had one Body, and now he has two? And same with Kairi and Namine? And Xehanort and Ansem the Dark? And every other Nobody/Heartless? They all just magically spawn an extra Body? No. Wrong. Hearts and Heartless can both be physical things without having a Body, they're just much weaker.

[lionsbarrage]

that completely contradicts everything u try to say, if Sora s bod ywasnt really nothing more than that of a heartless, it would make no sense. And xehanort and xehanorts heartless, were never existing at the same time only his heartless and his nobody.

[Ashen Lionheart]

Sora=Heart. There's nothing left of him, all the rest is in Roxas (okay, so Roxas is back inside Sora as of the end of KHII, but you know what I mean). Thus, Sora is to Ansem the Dark what Roxas is to Xemnas. Ansem the Dark had no Body; his Body was in Xemnas. But Ansem the Dark had physical form. Clearly, a Heart or a Heartless is capable of physically manifesting itself. Thus, Sora doesn't have to have a Body in order to cut things up, just like Ansem the Dark doesn't have to have a Body to cut things up.

And I'd like to point out that it also doesn't make sense that a Heartless be able to be physical at all in spite of having no Body. Characters in Kingdom Hearts do not have to obey standard metaphysical laws. A Heartless on its own can be physical. Sora, without a Body, can be physical. How come he has to look like a Heartless just because he has no Body? Where is it written? How come Ansem the Dark didn't look like that even though he had no Body?

[lionsbarrage]

actually he reunited at the start of Kh2 when Sora awakes. BUt ur comparing 2 different things, xehanorts heartless is in fact a heartless for the ciumstances he went thru, but Sora returned from heartless state, meaning his back but not fully, but for the most part all of himself is back. this whole thing goes way to far out to fully be acceptable.

As for xehanorts heartless, he in fact did not have a body at the start of Kh1 till he got into Riku.

[Ashen Lionheart]

Something was under that robe. And where did Sora's new Body come from, when he stopped being a Heartless?

[lionsbarrage]

well, did say in the journals about ansem he had no physical form, i guess sorta like phantom, anyways, what Sora gained i cant anwser myself to full extent, but Sora did have his body his normal self, the same as if he never turned into a heartless, Roxas got his own body from somewhere, dont know where there, being just like the shadow of Sora.

What questions me though is why when Sora was sleeping did he need Roxas to wake up? Why didnt he have to need him before?

[Ashen Lionheart]

I don't think he needed Roxas to wake up, I think he just needed Roxas to be fully restored. Of course...he wasn't...fully restored...because he was back to level one...okay, so it's a plot hole.

[lionsbarrage]

well, u cant start at lvl 99, the only thing they make reference to in forgetting is his magic. Really the only game i saw where u could keep ur lvls was the .hack games.

[Ashen Lionheart]

Sure you can start at level ninety nine. Why not? But most importantly, all the wimpy little Heartless like Soldiers and Shadows that you were tearing through in Hollow Bastion are suddenly decent threats again at the beginning of KHII with Sora. You see, the problem was that Roxas was drained of all his power by the Organization somehow, which is why Roxas had such a wimpy level, and it wasn't until the event in the World That Never Was that Sora refused with the full-powered Roxas and became his fully powered self.

And no, I have no idea how Sora could fuse with Roxas twice.

[Ashen Lionheart]

For those of you just joining us, we've been debating for the past two pages solid whether or not Sora had a Soul before refusing with Roxas.

Here are the arguments for Sora having a Soul:
A Body can't live without a Soul, and Sora appears to have a Body and obviously is not dead, so he has a Soul.

And the argument for Sora not having a Soul:
Sora isn't actually a Body, he's just a Heart. He's physical just like the Heartless are physical, even though neither of them have Bodies. A Heart doesn't need a Soul so survive, and Sora's Body and Soul are both Roxas. If Sora has his Body, than what's Roxas made out of? And if Sora has a Soul, than shouldn't Roxas be a lifeless corpse?

[lionsbarrage]

i dont know how could that happen, i mean he had to fuse with him at the start of KH2 or at least were led to beleive that, I think that though since most of Roxas memories were erased he forgot his whole fighting style which reflects why he is lvl 1 in game, and then as progresses gets more and more to his original self as he remembers.

[Ashen Lionheart]

But there's still the problem that after refusing, Sora is way below level one hundred, or even level fifty-ish, which is where most people are even if they speed through KH as fast as they can.

[lionsbarrage]

yeah i know, but its the game mechanics, they have to start at lvl 1, especially for the new people,

[ultimate king mickey]

yea u cant produce sperm tht young specially strong enough to have a kid
plus if he had a kid at ten ewww

i dont think ven is soras brother or father
but roxas jus got vens body sum how and ven and sora got connected

that was so immature

[Roxas[Nobody]]

Sora does not have a Body. Neither do the Heartless.

wow thts dumb
sora does have a body like how would he be walkin around and living
roxas haves vens body and sora still have his body
heartless dont take bodys they take hearts and leave the bodies and the bodies form into nobodies

[lionsbarrage]

however what if that thoery is wrong, if it is what would u say about the 2 bodys.

[Ashen Lionheart]

wow thts dumb
sora does have a body like how would he be walkin around and living
roxas haves vens body and sora still have his body
heartless dont take bodys they take hearts and leave the bodies and the bodies form into nobodies

You have no evidence to back up your theory about Roxas having Ven's body except that they're connected somehow and they have the same hair color. Besides, you said yourself that Heartless don't take Bodies, they take Hearts. So where do they Bodies for the Heartless come from? Yes, Heartless are physical. So they must have a body in the traditional sense. But that doesn't mean they have a Body (capital 'B') in the sense that Ansem the Wise refers to a Body. I never said Sora was a ghost. I just don't think he has a Body. That's why he can turn into a Heartless at will.

[lionsbarrage]

U cant be like that without a body, there s just no way, this sounds crazier than roxas(nobody) theory, In a sense though, if this question about it does get awnsered maybe itll be something different or maybe itll never be explained.

[Ashen Lionheart]

Again, I never said he didn't have a body. I just said he doesn't have a Body. I suspect there's a difference between just being a solid, carbon based life form and having a Body.

And besides that, the whole premise behind Kingdom Hearts is absolutely insane.

[lionsbarrage]

it is insane, but as far as body there really cant be a difference, maybe in a sense, its like how heartless get born except reversed. Based on what we saw in traverse town when Sora first goes into district 2 we see a guys heart form a body of it own, If we take that and reverse the effects maybe the heart formed a new body exactly the same as how he was.

[Ashen Lionheart]

According to my theory, that's exactly what happened, except that the body formed by the Heart isn't a Body (with a capital 'B'). It's just a body. And somehow having a Body instead of just a body is necessary to be a complete person.

[lionsbarrage]

well we know he wasnt complete, but maybe the body that formed can be a normal full body down to the last cell, however the full completetion just isnt there, not just physically, but mentally as well.