Ven and Roxas

[Roxas[Nobody]]

i kno tht ppl hate my hole roxas has ven body theory
but i have so evidence(kinda)
i was lookin at vens pic on destiny island

http://www.khinsider.com/images/BirthBySleep/screen%2001.jpg

look at his hand he has the same band has Roxas does
it sum kinda evidence tht roxas and ven have a connection

and heres roxas wit the band
http://gennady619.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/roxas-and-friends.jpg

[JpahXIV]

i kno tht ppl hate my hole roxas has ven body theory
but i have so evidence(kinda)
i was lookin at vens pic on destiny island

http://www.khinsider.com/images/BirthBySleep/screen%2001.jpg

look at his hand he has the same band has Roxas does
it sum kinda evidence tht roxas and ven have a connection

I noticed that too, there is no way that the just resemble one another, its is too exact.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

I noticed that too, there is no way that the just resemble one another, its is too exact.

well do u kno my theory?

[JpahXIV]

I dont know your theory, I just know that Roxas looks exactly like Ven. So i can safely assume there is a big connection between them.

What is your theory?

[Roxas[Nobody]]

I dont know your theory, I just know that Roxas looks exactly like Ven. So i can safely assume there is a big connection between them.

What is your theory?

well ill keep it short

when nobodies are created first a person is turned in to a heartless and the empty body is left behind to form into a nobody. but in sora's case he got his body back so roxas obvious have another persons body im thinkin ven. i think tht roxas is part ven and part sora. sora mentally(his thoughts, the way he thinks the keyblades he has tht represent kairi and riku) and then ven physically(his face, his voice(yes this was confirmed), his hairstyle and this band)
im think tht Xemnas fused ven's body wit the half of sora and created roxas

[tam_107]

well ill keep it short

when nobodies are created first a person is turned in to a heartless and the empty body is left behind to form into a nobody. but in sora's case he got his body back so roxas obvious have another persons body im thinkin ven. i think tht roxas is part ven and part sora. sora mentally(his thoughts, the way he thinks the keyblades he has tht represent kairi and riku) and then ven physically(his face, his voice(yes this was confirmed), his hairstyle and this band)
im think tht Xemnas fused ven's body wit the half of sora and created roxas

i like your theory

[Key of Valor]

I never saw any pics of the future KH games nor have I seen the BBS Trailer
but even with the lack of visual evidence you've provided to support you're
theory I think you're somewhat on the right track. I didn't look at the pics
you linked to this thread but your words have conviced me enough to support
this theory.

I've said this before but in Sunset Horizens you can see two Vens at the same
time for just a second when the light hits him correctly. I think this is a cleverly
hidden hint to something. Please look at it and tell me what you think.

I've also said this before but I'll say it again,
Brilliant Theory you have there.

[JpahXIV]

i like your theory
So do I. It makes sense.

[Key of Valor]

How'd you think Xemnas got hold of Ven?
(Your answer can be a random thought)
And if you think Roxas is fused with Ven's
body then do you think Ven was fused as
a nobody or as a whole person?

[Roxas[Nobody]]

How'd you think Xemnas got hold of Ven?
(Your answer can be a random thought)
And if you think Roxas is fused with Ven's
body then do you think Ven was fused as
a nobody or as a whole person?

well i dont think as a whole person because roxas never had memories of vens life flash in his dreams. Xemnas could have discovered of vens burial grounds(if he is died) then there would be not use of heart or thoughts and memories jus the body

[tam_107]

How'd you think Xemnas got hold of Ven?
(Your answer can be a random thought)
And if you think Roxas is fused with Ven's
body then do you think Ven was fused as
a nobody or as a whole person?

maby the old guy and xemnas could be partners or something

[Key of Valor]

I'm not sure a dead corpse would work.
Roxas needed a soul too.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

maby the old guy and xemnas could be partners or something

i think Xehornat is a younger clone of master xehornat sent to spy on ansem the wise and study heartless to learn how to control them

to KoV- i didnt think of tht give me sumthin i get the whole soul thing into the theory

[Key of Valor]

Um... clones?
Why was he almost dead then?

[Roxas[Nobody]]

Um... clones?
Why was he almost dead then?

i dont understand ur question but
Master Xehornat could have sent Xehornat around this time in the story and he could have been wit Ansem tht whole time(but i have to work on this theory to right now its jus a guess)

[Key of Valor]

Ansem found Xehanort barely alive. Why
would Xehanort send his clone to
Radient Garden badley injured like that?

[Roxas[Nobody]]

Ansem found Xehanort barely alive. Why
would Xehanort send his clone to
Radient Garden badley injured like that?

well im still workin on tht
and Xehornat may have had a mind of his own and refused to work for master xehornat so he took force forcing him to do his dirty work

but tht is off topic lets tlk about the whole Ven and Roxas thing

[Key of Valor]

Okay, back to a previous question of mine?
A dead corpse?
Roxas needed a soul too.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

Okay, back to a previous question of mine?
A dead corpse?
Roxas needed a soul too.

me could have got part of sora's and kairis (wouldnt this fall in the mental part)
cuz when sora stabbed himself he created roxas and namine part of kairi was in sora but i roxas could also only have half a soul

[lionsbarrage]

cept the body as in i mean they have to have the soul to for ma nobody. This theory as alot of holes in it so im not really that much support of it, but based on other looney theories it still has only 1 strong point. But what i think is just as i stated in another post.

From what we saw in Kh1 in our first trip to traverse town we saw someones heart go off and become a heartless, that heart formed aa new heartless body of its own, if we take that for Sora's case and reversed it, it could mean the heart formed a new body in the exact shape and for as its original self. Virtually complete excepte for the original body that stilll has connection to Sora, so Sora isnt 100% back to his original self.

Plus on the ven roxas thoery how would xemnas even know about Ven.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

cept the body as in i mean they have to have the soul to for ma nobody. This theory as alot of holes in it so im not really that much support of it, but based on other looney theories it still has only 1 strong point. But what i think is just as i stated in another post.

From what we saw in Kh1 in our first trip to traverse town we saw someones heart go off and become a heartless, that heart formed aa new heartless body of its own, if we take that for Sora's case and reversed it, it could mean the heart formed a new body in the exact shape and for as its original self. Virtually complete excepte for the original body that stilll has connection to Sora, so Sora isnt 100% back to his original self.

Plus on the ven roxas thoery how would xemnas even know about Ven.

i stressed this already i would connect wit the master xehornat part tht is kinda egdy
and Mickey could have tolded Xehornat and Ansem the wise

[lionsbarrage]

i dont think mickey told or talked to xehanort about anything, for al lwe know now he just saw him for 5 secs and that was it.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

well ansem could have told Xehornat

[lionsbarrage]

how would he know then? Even if mickey were to tell him i doubt mickey would know all that much himself about the 4 men other than what he saw of them fight.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

the video was part of the bbs ending

[Key of Valor]

Lionsbarrage's idea about Sora's heart creating an entirely new body is the
widely accepted version. Roxas Nobody's general idea is unique and possible
but it lacks logical detailing. Sometimes being even slightly wrong because of
a tiny inaccuracy could cause you theories to loose believability. I don't agree
with your answers but I'm still a fan of your basic theory.

[Ashen Lionheart]

I don't think Sora has a normal body though. I think he's made out of the same stuff as Heartless, but he looks different because he's in control, whereas the Heartless are slaves to instinct.

[lionsbarrage]

and i dont think they are the same as the heartless either, even as xehanorts was. Im thinking it is exactly the same. Only that the peice missing is something u cannot see, or feel. I dont really know but u get what im saying.

[Key of Valor]

That always bothered me too.
Xemnas said Sora was incomplete
but from what I understood his
body reformed exactly as it was
so what was Sora missing?

Do you think Sora was connected
Ven and when Roxas was formed
he took that connection with him?
Could that be what was missing?

[lionsbarrage]

maybe, i mean from what we heard he has a connection with both, more than just apearances yeah, but somrthing deeper than that.
Honestly though i always wondered whow was Sora any different when he was incomplete from the time he returned from heartless, till the end of KH2.

[Ashen Lionheart]

That may be it, but that would mean the connection to Ven exists in Sora's Soul or Body, not his Heart. So far, the only connections in Kingdom Hearts have revolved around Hearts.

I still think it was just Sora being made out of the same stuff as the Heartless, and thus he was naturally weaker than if he had a real Body.

[lionsbarrage]

but it never showed so, he could not have been any weaker or stronger in any way shape or form, which why we ask that.

[Ashen Lionheart]

At The End of the World, he could rip through Shadows like a hot knife through butter. At the beginning of KHII, the Shadows were a decently tough battle again. Clearly, he was a lot weaker than before.

[lionsbarrage]

he was sleeping, but also it was when he woke up he joined roxas not at TWNTW, anyways thats story event, i mean look at leon and Kairi, they all ripped thru the enimies in 1 blow.

[Xuan]

The theory was not good. If you say Roxas' body was taken from Ven then how would you explain Namine's body? And if your remember in Ansem's secret report, Roxas and Namine are both Sora's Nobodies.
Still, it was a good attempt. We all try to succeed. Study more and get more info.

[axel(bond of flame)]

I don't think Sora has a normal body though. I think he's made out of the same stuff as Heartless, but he looks different because he's in control, whereas the Heartless are slaves to instinct.

soras has a normal body cuz remember he got the keyblade cuz riku went into the darkness so the keyblade chose him over riku
if he was made out of heartless he wouldnt weild the kingdom key

[Key of Valor]

I haven't read the secret Ansem Reports in a while so I don't remember much but
what I do remember is reading a part which explained that Roxas and Namine
are Sora's nobodies. I thought I misread that part wrong and quickly discarded
the specific paragraph all together but if I'm not the only one that got that from
reading it then perhaps my initial understanding was in fact accurate.

And Roxas Nobody's basic theory appears to continue to stand. So far I have not
seen one thing that dirrectly disproves the original idea that Roxas has Ven's
body. This is not theory I approve as primary but I look foward in seeing it's
development.

[lionsbarrage]

well it sorta does disprove in the fact that namine was the same as roxas, however i think the phrase in the reports saying namine and roxas are sora's nobodies, naimne is clearly Kairi's no ifs and or butts, we saw it in KH2, and i dont think i need to explain the scenes.

[Key of Valor]

I think you're jumping to conclusions a bit too much.
It is unlikely that another explanation is possible but
you can't know that for sure until you deeply consider
the possibilities that the things you think you know may
be false.

I'm still considering whether it's true or not.
Note: You might not want to waste as much
time as I do though when it comes to thinking
things through.

[Xuan]

Namine is not Kairi's Nobody. When Sora's heart is released, Roxas was created. When Kairi's heart was released, Namine was created. But essentially, it was Sora's body and soul that formed the two Nobodies, so both are considered as Sora's Nobodies. That is IF, Ansem the Wise did not make a mistake in his research.
And I still don't understand why people can't make out the connection between Ven and Roxas. C'mon, 358/2 Days talks all about Ven and Roxas. BBS gives another clear idea of what had happened. Think about it. It's good to train your mind, especially when you have too much time.

[lionsbarrage]

Namibe is Kairis nobody. When Sora's heart was released his body created roxas, when Kairi's heart was released she created namine, If it was just Sora's she wouldnt have fused with Namine then. Simple as that, and yeah in the world of KH nothing is simple, especially with the heart. And as Ansem did say he made alot of mistakes and micalculations, he said it himself before he died.
BTW if ur so high and mighty , that u can type out alot of posts instead of saying the excuse of midterm, than share ur theory, because u cant wonder why people dont think the same as u, or are in line wih ur theory, because thats all it is, a theory. This is by no means an attempt to flame u, but u need to consider that ur theorys may be wrong and u cannot call people dumb for not coming up with ur awnser, when u have yet to put one up.

[Ashen Lionheart]

soras has a normal body cuz remember he got the keyblade cuz riku went into the darkness so the keyblade chose him over riku
if he was made out of heartless he wouldnt weild the kingdom key

I love tearing illogical posts to shreds.

First; I said that Sora didn't have a normal Body because Roxas has his Body (this is how it works for most Nobodies), thus he would've had his Body when he got the Kingdom Key.

Second, why on Earth couldn't someone made out of Heartless wield the Kingdom Key? Someone whose Heart is Dark can't wield the Kingdom Key because it's the Keyblade of Light (you'll notice Anti-Form Sora doesn't use his Keyblade), but the only way Sora could be made out of Heartless and not be a Heartless is if his Heart wasn't Dark. Thus, your point is moot.

Moving on.

A normal Nobody is made from the Body and Soul left behind after a Heart leaves it. This may not be true for all Nobodies, but I don't think Square would give us that information just to say it's wrong later on, so I think it's definitely true for most Nobodies. So if Sora has two Nobodies, that must mean he also has two Souls and two Bodies...what?!?

First off, Namine can't possibly have Sora's Body because Sora is obviously a boy and Namine is obviously a girl (it may be possible for Namine to have Sora's Soul, because the Soul may be trans-sexual, but the Body most definitely isn't). Second, Namine can't possibly have Kairi's Body because Kairi's Body is seen comatose just before Sora becomes a Heartless, we clearly see her Heart settling into her Body. She doesn't lose it when Sora comes back.

So whose Body does Namine have (if, indeed, she has a Body at all?)? How can someone have two Nobodies? If Namine is Sora's Nobody, why'd she refuse with Kairi instead? If Roxas has Ven's Body, where did Sora's Body go? When Sora stopped being a Heartless, did he also, in defiance of all meta-physical logic, spontaneously regain his Body? If Roxas is Sora's Nobody, how'd he end up with Ven's Body? Wouldn't that mean that Sora also had Ven's Body?

[Key of Valor]

I have not yet develped a firm belief or theory that I have approved
as close enough to being fact but here are my thoughts on Namines's
body.

1. Namine's appears to have the appearence of a girl, much like Kairi's body, but
it can never be stated for sure what gender she is. Though it can never be stated
for sure I am going to personally state that I know for sure she is a girl.
(The point of this reasaon is to state that I think I'm
so sure but there is that chance that I might be wrong)

2. I believe Kairi's body was able to reappear in KH1 because the heartless are
bonded with the power of hearts and though Kairi's heart was not in their clutches
they were most likely able to connect to Kairi's form and reconstruct her body at
Malecifents command. This is similar to when Kairi freed Sora's heart and allowed
his strength to rebuild his body. The heart contains everything a person is on a
more powerful level including a person's physical form and personality traits and
memories.

3. Ven looks like Roxas and Roxas looks like Sora. Why does Ven look like Sora?
Or is it that Roxas does not resemble Sora and the truth being that it was never
stated in the game that Roxas looked like Sora even though they were similar in
many ways.

[Xuan]

Which means what people thought earlier was WRONG.
I'll say it here since it's not enough to make a theory.
Nobodies are not created by both body and soul.
It was creatd by the soul and only the soul only.
Ansem the Wise first thought that Nobodies are the fusion between the body and soul because there was never a case like Sora and Kairi's.
Those who became a Heartless never came back except Sora.
That is WHY Ansem thought that Nobodies are created from the body and soul.

Nobodies are created by the person's soul when the heart is released from the body.

If this isn't correct, that's because future information defies it.

[Key of Valor]

Please read reason 2 above.

I like your idea but I fear it may be wrong only because a
soul is the same as being a ghost. Besides, if the soul was
seperated from the body then Sora would never be able to
get his body back.

[Xuan]

A replication of the body perhaps.
I didn't think this out because I have other matters to attend.
But at least the soul is confirmed to be an essential item in the creation of Nobody

[Key of Valor]

Oh My Goodness!
I finally got a chance to reread the Secret Ansem reports and I discovered the
third element necessary for a nobody to exist that makes perfect sense.

For a nobody to exist it needs the following:
Composition/Body
Life/Soul
Design/Self/Form

Form is always released into a non-existant state each time a heart is released
from a body. When Kairi lost her heart she released an imprint of her design but her
body and soul remained together and because seperated from the released imprint
of self it remained an empty vessel in the clutches of the heartless. Kairi's heart merged
with Sora too quickly for the self to obtain any of Kairi's memories.

When Sora released his heart he released the following.
Kairi's Heart
Sora's Heart
Sora's Body
Sora's Soul
Sora's Design

Sora's body and soul were used in the composition of Namine. Her form was
determined by her original design released when Kairi first lost her heart.
The Design molded Sora's body and soul to match Kairi as closely as possible.
Roxas runs into a problem though. Roxas had a design but no body or soul
to mold and exist in. This dead end can only be explained by a few things.
One of which is Roxas Nobody's theory that Roxas has Ven's body which
explains EVERYTHING. Roxas looks like both Sora and Ven because he is
Ven's body meeting Sora's appearence halfway. Just like how Namine looks
like both Sora and Kairi.

Funny though-Namine is how Sora and Kairi's daughter would look like.

Congrats Roxas Nobody, I now accept your original theory as personal fact.
Who would have guessed that it would be you to first publically suggest
this connection. You are Brilliant!

[lionsbarrage]

i think ur putting waay to much thought into this to really be comprehended by the whole KH audcience. However it is a good theory to put in mind im not convinced at all of it, to keep things simple the whole thing has to be more simpler than that. I dont believe that namine has anything to do with Sora's heart body or soul. Roxas's body in terms of connection to Sora and ven are still un explained, however i do not think souls are nessesary to create nobody.

Also u cant count on square to give us correct information, if the sequel changes it. U know like the whole ansem thing and even ansem the wise did admit some of his theories are wrong. For the one thing i do agree on what he says though, we will never know the hearts true essence, and its conjunction with the rest of the body and soul.

[Xuan]

You mean Nobodies are like a copy of the previous owner. Sora still has his own body and soul. Or maybe not. I've thought it over and I think I knew what happened. But I'll still need planning.

[Key of Valor]

What I'm saying is not too complicated but it might be unbelievable
only because it was never clearly stated that nobodies need three
things to exist. Ansem's Reports does indirrectly suggest though that
a third thing is created when a heart is released.

This never has really come up in KH only because it is an unseen
force that is difficult to determine exactly what it is. I called it Design
because if Sora's Nobody looks like him and Kairi's Nobody looks like
her and neither of them are made from their original selve's bodies
then there must be something that determined their forms and
appearence and I call that Design.

Ansem the Wise does say that we can never fully understand the heart
and I still agree with that but this is not so much the heart but instead
the necessities of a nobody's existence and I don't believe that is beyond
our comprehension.

And if the Ansem Reports are wrong then is there some possibility that
everything we think about KH is wrong? I think it's safe to assume that
the Ansem Reports are 100 percent accurate. So as it clearly states,
Namine is made up of Sora's Soul and Body.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

yea i am Brillant:D

but yea u but alot of thought in it

[Key of Valor]

I'm glad that the Genius himself likes my work. :D
Any more theories about this subject you would like to add?

[Roxas[Nobody]]

i cant think of much rite kno(watchin iCarly)

[lionsbarrage]

And if the Ansem Reports are wrong then is there some possibility that
everything we think about KH is wrong? I think it's safe to assume that
the Ansem Reports are 100 percent accurate. So as it clearly states,
Namine is made up of Sora's Soul and Body.

First the ansem reports in the first were written by xehanort, and even though they are mostly true, it still had a secret, and since Ansm admitted he made far too many errors, we can safely assume that the reports are not 100% accurate. Also the heart body and soul are all connected, we cannot profess to know any of them to their full extent. To say Namine is from Sora, completely disregards the fact that we saw Namine and Kairi reunite, thats basically saying a theory from Ansem has more truth, thn what we see with our own 2 eyes.

[Xuan]

Namine is made by Sora's soul and body. That's correct.
Yet you guys wonder why that Namine reunited with Kairi.
That might be the same reason why Roxas reunited with Sora. Or it has something to do with Kairi's heart.
My point is Namine is not only Sora's Nobody. She was... something else.

[Key of Valor]

My theory answers what Namine has that makes her Kairi's Nobody.
That thing is something I called Design. I also called this form and self
because it determines the shape a nobody takes and whose nobody
it is meant to be.

Sora's body and soul where only meaningful in Namine's composition
but in her actual being she was Kairi or Kairi's sate as Nobody. It's like
building a house using materials from Canada, It's made from Canadian
Trees yet it belongs to an American Citizen because they're the ones that
made it. Sorry for the stupid metaphor but I think it proves my point.

And Everything is the Ansem Reports is true. The Ansem Reports are a
sort of guide given to the KH audience to explain how the world of the
game works therefore the percentage of it misleading us is less than 1.
Besides, why would something so complicated be stated in the Reports
if it was just wrong? I'm not a fan of this but in this case of determining
whether or not the Ansem Reports contain error I suggest circumstancial
evidence comes in handy.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

well namine and roxas were created at the same time which was when sora stabbed himself wit the blade and kairi's heart tht was in sora went back to her instead of it begin stole by the heartless and namine and roxas was created

[Key of Valor]

In the Ansem Reports it states how Namine already pre-existed before that event
as an unstable nobody which was created when Kairi first lost her heart. I imagine
she took the form of an entity of some sort, perhaps similar to the state she existed
as when she partly merged with Kairi as the World That Never Was.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

she's made from sora and kairi
imma replay tht part when kairi and sora loses there hearts on kh to get a better understanding

[Key of Valor]

She was first formed when Kairi lost her heart but Namine was not completed
until Sora lost his body and when this occured, Namine was able to use his body
in her composition.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

so its like if kairi and sora had a kid it would be like namine??

[Key of Valor]

Yep.
Well it's possible.
That is if the genes that their child gets are
similar to that of Namine's characteristics.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

but the blonde hair unless one of there parents or parents parents had blonde hair

[Key of Valor]

I think blond hair is a recessive
gene so Kairi and Sora could both
be carriers of it and not even know it.

It's a gene that could remain hidden
for generations.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

thts what i meant

sum pays attention in life science...lol

[kingoflight]

y we talking about kids here

[Roxas[Nobody]]

becuz its involves the topic of ven and roxas
and nobodies

[kingoflight]

gotcha
so what ur saying is that namine's is a nobody mixute of sora and kairi

[Key of Valor]

Yep.
Sora's body meeting Kairi's appearence half way.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

gotcha
so what ur saying is that namine's is a nobody mixute of sora and kairi

what do you think of my ven and roxas theory?

[kingoflight]

hmmmm that is a good one i am gonna think more about that

[Key of Valor]

Please read the 47th post of this thread also.
It's a justification of his theory. That and his
previous provided evidence make for a good
arguememnt of why his theory is true.

[kingoflight]

whoa
what do u mean by design

[Key of Valor]

Here is the first paragraph of post 56

My theory answers what Namine has that makes her Kairi's Nobody.
That thing is something I called Design. I also called this form and self
because it determines the shape a nobody takes and whose nobody
it is meant to be.

[kingoflight]

so when a person gets turned into a heartless or nobody
there design gets based off of the orginals design
gotcha.

[Key of Valor]

Yep, exactly.
Also determines
the propperties of
the composition.

[kingoflight]

hhmmm never knew that.

[lionsbarrage]

We cant base everything is true off of the reports, though we can use it as a base, and for the most part most of the stuff is true, however when one admits he has made many errors, than u cant base everything that he writes down as true, especially when new stories of KH come into focus.

Point being Namine was not formed when Sora stabbed himself, for that is not when kairi first lost her heart. I cannot begin to explain how Namine was during the time when she was first created to the time we first saw her. However seeing the the 2 nobodies reunite with their former selves, is not similar. IF Namine had anything to do with Sora there would be no union of her and Kairi, and if it was then it would disprove the reunion of Sora and Roxas.

[Xuan]

1 problem I always face when making theories is that I cannot narrow it down to one game only (for example, KH: 358/2 Days) only. It will always be related to something else like my future theory which links BBS and 358/2 Days(Another time, I might put it in KH3 room). But the connection is quite simple. But not now. I sitll haven't figure out the meaning of, 'When the mind touches, they always come back'. Gimme some ideas.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

well this theory links 358/2 days and BBS but mostly BBS
but i dont understand what ur asking

[Key of Valor]

:D Soory but I also have no idea what you're talking about
but maybe thats because I'm not keeping up with any new
information on these new installments.

Anyway, Lionsbarrage, there is no inbetween. Either the little told
in the Ansem Reports are in fact true or we can't rely on anything
we know and we might have well know nothing at all about the
KH World. The Secret Ansem Reports do not decieve. Ansem made
mistakes in his life and his way of thinking but his research was
exact. Every result he shared in his notes was created after much
research and thought and would not have been stated if not true.

[kingoflight]

hmmmmmmm

[Key of Valor]

Different Design?
Sora's Heart.
Ven's Heart.

Thanks to the recent Sora Ven Connection
thread I remembered what I forgot:
Roxas is a product of Sora and Ven's
connection so is there something else
that connects the two?

Why didn't Sora's Design use Sora's body
as composition? Was his design preset to
Ven's body and if so why? Why would
Sora's Design be compatable with Ven's
body? Design is Self. Was Sora's Self Ven's?

I know these sound like random questions
but I've always said how the heart is
uncomprehendable. Could it be that
Ven and Sora had the same heart?

[kingoflight]

or had the same soul

[Roxas[Nobody]]

The could be possible
maybe sora has two bodies....lol

[Ashen Lionheart]

Different Design?
Sora's Heart.
Ven's Heart.

Thanks to the recent Sora Ven Connection
thread I remembered what I forgot:
Roxas is a product of Sora and Ven's
connection so is there something else
that connects the two?

Why didn't Sora's Design use Sora's body
as composition? Was his design preset to
Ven's body and if so why? Why would
Sora's Design be compatable with Ven's
body? Design is Self. Was Sora's Self Ven's?

I know these sound like random questions
but I've always said how the heart is
uncomprehendable. Could it be that
Ven and Sora had the same heart?

What exactly is a Design?
And how do you know Roxas is a product of Sora and Ven's connection?

[Roxas[Nobody]]

What exactly is a Design?
And how do you know Roxas is a product of Sora and Ven's connection?

look after they other post it explains it

[Key of Valor]

Ansem suggests that three things are necessary for a nobody to exist
so I developed a theory on the third component and called it Design.
It's on post 47 and 56 of this thread.

I'm not sure whether or not if Roxas is the connection or just
the product of Ven's and Sora's connection but though there
is many evidence to support that Roxas has Ven's body there
is fewer evidence to explain why so I believe that answer lies
in the secret of Ven's and Sora's ultimate connection. Since they
both wield the same keyblade at different times I believe the
answer lies in the composition of their hearts.

[kingoflight]

what if maybe vens body was like an empty shell and when roxas was made he probly some how took over his body cuz like u guys say sora has a connection somehow with ven

[Roxas[Nobody]]

well they both a keyblade which is the realm of light kingdom key (so there both good) and their names are similar "wind" and "sky"
but it think ven and sora have a deeper connection then terra and riku and aqua and kairi

[kingoflight]

wait who was on the beach watching riku and sora

[Roxas[Nobody]]

wait......what??

[kingoflight]

nevermind

[lionsbarrage]

that was terra watching them.

anyway key of valor, the reports can be decieved, when new elements come into play. Both Roxas and Namine could not be made by Sora, especially when Ansem adresses Roxas as half of Sora. What we see happen cannot always be right with what in the reports, i use the reports as a base, to be mostly true except for a few exceptions.

As for the third element to make a person i think its, heart, body, and soul.

Heart becomes a heartless, and a body beocmes a nobody, is the base ideal, but what becomes of the soul?

[Key of Valor]

Well when a nobody is formed it is made of body and soul (FACT)
A soul is the unique physical life force of a being.
If you're wondering what happens to a soul when
seperated from the body then I suggest you pick
up a Bible or a Qur'an or whatever book your religion
follows. The only mystery that truely remains are what
are the beings with one missing.

Body and Soul - Nobody
Body and Heart - ?
Soul and Heart - ?

It's true that a person consists of heart body and soul but
design exists as the encompass of all 3 at a different level.
It basically exists in one's own existence. Natural record of
someone's being.

Ansem called Roxas half of Sora. While Ansem did not mention
what I called Design in detail he did indirectly suggest that such
a thing existed. Roxas was Sora but at the same time wasn't so
I guess a nobody called be called half of a person.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

chasers?

[Key of Valor]

Hm... Maybe.
Didn't think of that.

Hm... I think I said something incorrect.
When listing different possibilities I
conflicted with a previous statement and
now I realize that forgot to take into
account bounded components.

This conflict does not effect my design
theory but it does effect the list I made
above.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

well they took those 3 things and but them in different combintation and made new enemies wit each one

[Key of Valor]

I think one of the Ansem Reports in KH:FM explains what one of these are.
No Wait, it was one of the Secret Ansem Reports in KH2.
I think it explains how a heart and soul is a person's transcended entity.
So maybe the only combination left in question is what becomes
of a being only consisting of Heart and Body.
Perhaps that is a chaser.

[lionsbarrage]

Well when a nobody is formed it is made of body and soul (FACT).

That is not a fact, actually since it clearly does not state u need a body AND a soul to form a nobody. That is only an assumption based on a mathematical procedure said in the reports. However it does not fully explain that. IT mentions on if a soul leaves a body it dies, however would it apply only to a living person or both a living person and fter it be comes a nobody?

I do not think there is anything called design, because it doesnt fall into anything really, merly just a full sort of copy. OR as a base for other things.

I cannot reallly say what chasers are, for that maybe some thing completely different then the 3 elements to make a person. But then again the soul could in fact be what the new enemy is, or even the chaser themselves.

oh and u cant base what happens to a soul in real life or bible stuff, to what happens in KH. Its the same as heartless and nobodies, do u see them in RL?

[Key of Valor]

Other than the acknowledgement of the heart the two
worlds of real life and KH seem very similar. Ansem said
that a body without a soul is a corpse so a nobody can't
just be a body. In my theory souls are just ghosts looking
for their hearts so they can transcend to the next life.
Lastly, perhaps Design does not exist but I would like to
hear your theory on what you think the third component
of a nobody is.

[lionsbarrage]

taking bible related stuff or Rl stuff into KH cant really be connected as much ,although some stuff yes does apply. Anyways even if the report was true a body without a soul is a dead body, but we cant be sure the same applies to a nobody, its one of those things that was not stated that could prove in further series that could create much new info. However for right we all know the 3 compenents are the soul, body, and heart. nobodies are the empty shell of a person, but how could it be empty if it has the soul as well? Id like to think for the KH audience to be kept some ways simple, that the soul in fact becomes the new type of enemy, although i dont really have any strong theories to prove it.

Maybe this has a connection to why was xehanorts heartless ghostly until he united with Riku to take physical form? If souls are indeed like ghosts maybe it had something to do with him as merly a ghost.

[Key of Valor]

It is stated that a soul is the only difference between life and death of a body.
A soul is a person's specific life force that accounts for their uniqueness in
reactions thus the reason why they can feel or of course I mean feel in the
sense that the mind bares the expirience but the nobody itself understands
that it lacks the actual component for a direct impact on actual self.

Organization XIII were pretty much all killed while sperated from
their hearts. To transcend to the next life they need their hearts
so perhaps the Organization will return in a future KH as ghosts
looking for their hearts. (Highly doubt it though but I'm just saying
it's possible)

Unless hearts were being stolen by a non heartless force in BBS
I don't think souls will be a enemy. Then again, hearts being stolen
by a non heartless force doesn't seem quite unlikely and is quite
possible. If a situation similar to the one I just mentioned take
place then maybe we will see soul based enemies in BBS.

[lionsbarrage]

well i mean in a case of soul leaving the body yes i mean that would mean death, however were talking about stuff, that already does not exist. Nobodies are supposed to not exist, but why? is it maybe cause also their souls have left them? Also what stops from darkness taking a living form as a heartless? The same could be said about nobodies. All these componants, arent supposed to be around and yet they are for whatever reason. Wether the soul becomes the new enemy or not, i still think it plays a key role in future KH series.

[Xuan]

I mean everytime I make a theory, it's world basis. It connects to KH1, KH2, CoM, BBS, Coded, bla bla bla. I find it hard to focus on just one game and theorise it, because it is basically, about everything! I could've talk the entire thing and the future in one theory because everything's connected. Mostly.

[Key of Valor]

My thought is that nobodies would fade into darkness immediately
after birth if it was not for the will of the soul to resist the darkness.
Some people do not have strong wills and do just fade into darkness
but others have strong and mighty souls that do not give in and keep
on going. Everything is made up of either light or darkness including
nobodies. Their darkness though is but a shade because darkness
draws its strength from hearts and without a heart their darkness
can not completely consume them without them being weakened.
They should not exist is an odd term indeed. I think it refers to how
they were meant to fade into darkness but instead resisted and
now lie on the brink of their doom only living on as empty beings.

[lionsbarrage]

well it is a hard term, but i mean it is hard to describe, just like why are they destined to fade back into darkness, especially when it comes to terms how they were created in different ways, like Sora and Kairi. Also what could describe Sora when he was falling into darkness, when he was a heartless. What was that body of Sora. What is supposed to be logical is not, when u take Roxas and namine into account.

If that scene in the trailer of KH2FM was indeed one of the last things in the BBS game, we can assume that ven is on the brink of death, how do es he go on? If the thoery on souls being able to wander as a new type of enemy or chaser, then could he have been sustained in some way?

[Roxas[Nobody]]

ok what were we tlkin about??

[lionsbarrage]

read up and see.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

tht would take like 3 years can i get a short brief describtion

[lionsbarrage]

its just about ven and roxas, but also in the events on how a nobody is formed, in the account of souls being used, wether it be a new enemy or whatnot.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

well were tlkin about tht on almost every thread...lol

[lionsbarrage]

well in some way or form, it all connects, and i guess it just goes right back to the same thing.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

yuperina....
is this thread dying:( ?

[lionsbarrage]

unless someone else has news or theories.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

unless someone else has news or theories.

well what about you still fill the same about my theory

[UltimaxWeapon]

well what about you still fill the same about my theory

well wats ur theory

[Key of Valor]

I recommend you read post 1, 5, 47, and 56.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

well wats ur theory

c this is what happens when you leave....lol

can up jus look on the first page of this thread i think its on tht page.

[lionsbarrage]

i already said what i though t about urs, i think that Ven had something to do within Sora, and when Sora stabbed himself it was released and went int othe formation of Roxas, however i dont think its the same body sorta say.

[UltimaxWeapon]

good observation on the wrist bands, i never saw that

[Key of Valor]

I agree with what Lionsbarrage. His explanation explains alot
and I guess could also contribute to the reason why Roxas
was formed using Ven's body.

[UltimaxWeapon]

I agree with what Lionsbarrage. His explanation explains alot
and I guess could also contribute to the reason why Roxas
was formed using Ven's body.

but roxas was formed when sora was turned into a heartless. thats why i think ven and sora have to be related, because why would roxas apear when sora turned into a heartless and look exactly like ven? there has to be a connection

[Key of Valor]

Did you read what I said on post 47 and 56?
It's my hard to believe theory.

[UltimaxWeapon]

Did you read what I said on post 47 and 56?
It's my hard to believe theory.

umm no i didnt........

[Key of Valor]

Too long?

[UltimaxWeapon]

Too long?

to far back.........

[Key of Valor]

Oh okay.
Would you be willing to read it if I repost it.
(you'll regret it if you say yes) :D

[Roxas[Nobody]]

good observation on the wrist bands, i never saw that

thnx
and your sig is wow

[lionsbarrage]

agreed.

[UltimaxWeapon]

thnx
and your sig is wow

lol im so happy :D

[Roxas[Nobody]]

well you still think roxas doesnt have ven's body

[The King of KH]

well you still think roxas doesnt have ven's body
i think that.............

[Roxas[Nobody]]

i think that.............

it jus sames obvious but many say roxas has sora's body jus becuz he is his nobody

[lionsbarrage]

well, he is with all the stuf fthat happened.

[Key of Valor]

When did it come to that we couldn't trust the Ansem reports anymore?
Just because the first set of notes lied to us who wrote them doesn't
mean we disreguard them all together. The reasoning behind everything
ever writen in those reports seem to bee backed up by reliable facts and
observations. It gives an excellent reason why Roxas doesn't have Sora's
body yet no one trusts the word of Ansem the Wise. Is his explanation so
outragous that it is beyond belief?

[lionsbarrage]

When did it come to that we couldn't trust the Ansem reports anymore?
Just because the first set of notes lied to us who wrote them doesn't
mean we disreguard them all together. The reasoning behind everything
ever writen in those reports seem to bee backed up by reliable facts and
observations. It gives an excellent reason why Roxas doesn't have Sora's
body yet no one trusts the word of Ansem the Wise. Is his explanation so
outragous that it is beyond belief?

because if we were to believe everything , than we cannot believe what we see with our eyes then, The first set did lie or had something hidden about it, so why cant the others? I blieve they are there as a base from one mans observations, i mean how long do u think he had to study about somethings like namine, while trying to plot his revenge really, Plus we also cant go by everything since he admits al ot things he isnt fully righ about. Roxas did in fact have Soras body, but u cant have what u see a report contradict what u see in the game. As Ansem said about the heart is what i think his reports are as well, we can always u se them as a base, but there are exceptions, and stuff we may never fully know about.

[Xuan]

Well, for now, we can safely assume that they are right EXCEPT for the Roxas, Sora, Namine and Kairi part. Their creation is based on HIS asumption, not the real thing. And he said that it is unique. So this suggests that he himself was not so sure about it.

[lionsbarrage]

Well, for now, we can safely assume that they are right EXCEPT for the Roxas, Sora, Namine and Kairi part. Their creation is based on HIS asumption, not the real thing. And he said that it is unique. So this suggests that he himself was not so sure about it.

well said.

[Genixma No. - -]

Ven seems to have a more muscular body then Roxas with the armor and all though it is obvious Roxas and Ven are connected we won't be sure how they are connected till Birth By Sleep comes out. So many thoughts So little time.

[Key of Valor]

Lionsbarrage, what you're saying is that we should assume fault in the reports
yet assume our assumptions aren't hindered? All I'm saying is that you either
reguard all of the reports of fact ot can count every bit of info in them as unreliable
and lose most any evidence to support any theory.

I also want you to consider how pointless the Namine Sora section was.
Why mislead us if we obviously know what is right? Or were they giving
us a hint that would change our a perspective on the situation.
It's a circumstancial reason to believe the Ansem Reports but in the end
isn't all belief based off circumstances?

I don't mind your theoies but in the reality of your
supporting evidence it comes down to this.
Are the Ansem Reports entirely true are they entirely unreliable.
There exists an inbetween but when developing theories I don't
see that as much of a choice.

You can't just pick what yo want to believe just to better justify yout ideas.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

Interviewer: What is the importance of story?
Nomura: For example, the name Xehanort is bought up in Kingdom Hearts 2. The game will answer several things like, "Why is the elderly person who appears in Birth by Sleep bringing up the same name?" and ,"Why is he wearing the same clothes as Ansem in the original Kingdom Hearts?" Another thing I want to bring up, is, "Ven has the same hairstyle, face, clothes, and voice of Roxas, but just who is he?"

Interviewer: Is the voice actor of Ven the same as Roxas?
Nomura: Yes, it is the same actor. Therefore the player will only look at Ven as Roxas from Kingdom Hearts 2.

However, are Roxas and Ven really the same character?

Moreover, what about the mystery surrounding the existence of Ven and Roxas?

These are keys that will be revealed from playing Birth By Sleep. You will be able to separate Ven from Roxas with ease; I will hint though by connecting the story between Roxas and Sora, you will understand who Ven is.




i jus wanted to put tht out there again

[axel(bond of flame)]

nomura said if u no the connection between sora and roxas then u will no the connection between roxas and ven

[UltimaxWeapon]

nomura said if u no the connection between sora and roxas then u will no the connection between roxas and ven

that would meen that roxas is vens nobodie too

[axel(bond of flame)]

it dont sound right but
maybe true

[Roxas[Nobody]]

that would meen that roxas is vens nobodie too

part sora and part ven

[UltimaxWeapon]

it dont sound right but
maybe true

that would mean that ven would be a heartless, and sora would be a nobody so roxas would've never been made. besides its been said 1000's of times that roxas was born when sora was turned into a heartless

[axel(bond of flame)]

maybe thats why roxas has 2 keyblades

[Roxas[Nobody]]

no think the two keyblade represent kairi and riku
i think roxas is sora mentally and ven physically

[UltimaxWeapon]

maybe thats why roxas has 2 keyblades

well he has 2 keyblades because they both represent the light and dark of roxas and sora. oathkeeper being the light and oblivion being the dark

[axel(bond of flame)]

oh sorry i must have forgot

[UltimaxWeapon]

oh sorry i must have forgot

its ok, its just a theory no one can blame u

[Key of Valor]

Ultima, I agree that your Keyblade theory is possible but the Kairi Riku theory
seems more likely.

As for Roxas's birth. Sora's nobody using Ven's body. A simple explanation.
Except for the fact how Ven's body could exist for almost ten years without
breaking down. Perhaps tracking down Ven's heart would explain everything.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

Ultima, I agree that your Keyblade theory is possible but the Kairi Riku theory
seems more likely.

As for Roxas's birth. Sora's nobody using Ven's body. A simple explanation.
Except for the fact how Ven's body could exist for almost ten years without
breaking down. Perhaps tracking down Ven's heart would explain everything.

not if he stayed frozen for the 10 years

[Key of Valor]

First off avoid the spoilers. Haven't seen the trailer yet. :D

Second of all, HE STAYED FROZEN!!!
That Would Explain Everything (Almost)
Wow

[vanilla bear]

not if he stayed frozen for the 10 years

ooh, good observation.. i hadn't even thought of that.. so roxas wielding the two keyblades is supposedly symbolic of riku and kairi?

[Key of Valor]

Yep. I made a thread about that called Truth of the Keyblade under KH2 Characters.

[vanilla bear]

was that a theory or something stated as fact? either way i like it. i might have to check that thread out more in depth

[Roxas[Nobody]]

Yep. I made a thread about that called Truth of the Keyblade under KH2 Characters.

you jus love tht word spoiler
well i cant speak my mind its i limit everything if you wont watch the trailer

[vanilla bear]

you jus love tht word spoiler
well i cant speak my mind its i limit everything if you wont watch the trailer

which trailer? i'd like to watch it

[lionsbarrage]

the BBs trailer from KH2FM, u can see it in youtube, Really though i dont think he woulda stayed frozen for 10 years, but what about the possibilty of being digitized into Ansems computer? It is a theory i put in another threadt about the desing theory from key of valor. I mean what better excuse for design is there other than computers being able to digitiz people as we seen multiple times in KH2, with Roxas and Sora and his crew.

[vanilla bear]

oh wait, i've seen that video.. i didn't know it was the actual trailer for BBS though.. how would anyone have gotten their hands on ven to digitize him? i have the idea that aqua is the 14th member of the organization. do you think she could have taken ven with her to them, looking for help?

[Roxas[Nobody]]

oh wait, i've seen that video.. i didn't know it was the actual trailer for BBS though.. how would anyone have gotten their hands on ven to digitize him? i have the idea that aqua is the 14th member of the organization. do you think she could have taken ven with her to them, looking for help?

well the bbs trailer is part of the bbs ending

[axel(bond of flame)]

not if he stayed frozen for the 10 years

nice thought that could be true

[Xuan]

Being digitised is... unlikely. So far we had seen nothing of a technology item in BBS, not even a simple computer or something... But still, this is a 50-50 chance. Nice thought though.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

Being digitised is... unlikely. So far we had seen nothing of a technology item in BBS, not even a simple computer or something... But still, this is a 50-50 chance. Nice thought though.

well its only 10 years not 50
it cant be tht disadvanced

[vanilla bear]

considering how much of kh2 revolved around technology, i'd say there's a good portion of these upcoming games will deal with the same elements

[Xuan]

Yeah. You're maybe right.

[lionsbarrage]

oh wait, i've seen that video.. i didn't know it was the actual trailer for BBS though.. how would anyone have gotten their hands on ven to digitize him? i have the idea that aqua is the 14th member of the organization. do you think she could have taken ven with her to them, looking for help?

well im not so sure it was aqua who did it however yes it revovles around the same idea.

as far as digitize, well again we have already seen it happen with Roxas and Sora and company, and just cause one world might not have the technology doesnt mean all worlds dont. This comes togther with a theory i will post up as soon as i find the links for the support.

[axel(bond of flame)]

i kno tht ppl hate my hole roxas has ven body theory
but i have so evidence(kinda)
i was lookin at vens pic on destiny island

http://www.khinsider.com/images/BirthBySleep/screen%2001.jpg

look at his hand he has the same band has Roxas does
it sum kinda evidence tht roxas and ven have a connection

and heres roxas wit the band
http://gennady619.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/roxas-and-friends.jpg

they are connected that has been confirmed in an interview nomura said I will hint though by connecting the story between Roxas and Sora, you will understand who Ven is.

[lionsbarrage]

yes, but it might be more complicated than u think, however he also said ul be able to distinguish them with ease.

[UltimaxWeapon]

yes, but it might be more complicated than u think, however he also said ul be able to distinguish them with ease.

well nomura said once u beat all the storys in BBS u will easily understand the relationship with ven, roxas, and sora

[Xuan]

Easy of course. I think that wristband will be the key to differentiate Roxas and Ven. just an assumption of course.

[lionsbarrage]

well, as Nomura said, if we understand the connection of Sora and Roxas will be able to figure out who Ven is.

[Key of Valor]

Thats easy. Roxas is Sora's nobody yet he looks like Ven... Perhaps not so easy.
Unless Sora is Ven but that can't be. Perhaps Roxas's creation is more complex
than originally anticipated. I've said this before but the Ansem Reports say that
Sora's body was used in Namine's composition so... what was used in Roxas's
composition? A theory that I support is that Ven's body and soul is used to make
Roxas.

[lionsbarrage]

u know, im not it pus thoerys out of whack, especially when yesterday i found BBS qoutes as i posted in another thread saying whole bunch of stuff including, one statement from Ven saying "just erase me."

[UltimaxWeapon]

Thats easy. Roxas is Sora's nobody yet he looks like Ven... Perhaps not so easy.
Unless Sora is Ven but that can't be. Perhaps Roxas's creation is more complex
than originally anticipated. I've said this before but the Ansem Reports say that
Sora's body was used in Namine's composition so... what was used in Roxas's
composition? A theory that I support is that Ven's body and soul is used to make
Roxas.

the point is we wont know what all 3 of them have in common until one of us beats BBS. and seeing as though it wont come out for another year, were just gonna have to wait that long.

[Xuan]

That is one of the reasons I think Ven was created out of Sora's heart. As I said, Sora might not be human before, until something happened, and he was reborned as a human. But it would be too hard to explain since I lack essential information. My first attempt had landed in disaster because people couldnt take it lol.

[vanilla bear]

That is one of the reasons I think Ven was created out of Sora's heart. As I said, Sora might not be human before, until something happened, and he was reborned as a human. But it would be too hard to explain since I lack essential information. My first attempt had landed in disaster because people couldnt take it lol.

it has nothing to do with us "not able to take it"... anyways, you're diving into reincarnation and i highly doubt the game will take that route..

[Xuan]

Not reincarnation. Reincarnation means coming back to life from the dead.

[vanilla bear]

re·in·car·na·tion /ˌriɪnkɑrˈneɪʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ree-in-kahr-ney-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the belief that the soul, upon death of the body, comes back to earth in another body or form.

should i go on?

[Xuan]

Sora has never died before.

[lionsbarrage]

it doesnt matter u said reborn as a human from something else, that is reincarnation. Anyways that makes no sense, becuase Sora and Ven exist at the same time.

[vanilla bear]

roxas must have a deeper connection to ven than sora to ven, regardless of how the fact they look exactly alike

[lionsbarrage]

well, it is pretty much already known, but seeing as how Ven says just erase me sounds a bit odd.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

well, it is pretty much already known, but seeing as how Ven says just erase me sounds a bit odd.

tht is weird i see if he said take me but
erase me? he talkin like hes a computer program

[Key of Valor]

That does sound odd that he would used those words but of course
there is that chance that it is not a reference to computers but I guess
we'll see and until then speculate.

And Xaun is not suggesting reincarnation. His theory is far more creative and
logical and we should have an open mind though I do admit I am not a big
supporter of his theories.

[The King of KH]

dang they look so alike................

[vanilla bear]

if he does in fact say erase me, then maybe our "digitizing" theories make a little more sense..

[lionsbarrage]

well to me fro mthat staemaent seems more like how the dark soldier came from mast xehanort, all of a sudden another image comes out from master xehanort and turns into the dark soldier.

[Xuan]

Let's see.
Whenever the world is in danger, the Heroes of the Light will be borned to save the world.
So let's say Master Xehanort predicted the time and managed to discover the three hearts of "The Heroes of the Light". He tried to make it his own but he failed. So, in some way, he had created three replicas from the heart (Assuming he had the ability to manipulate hearts). Although no hearts are identical, he managed to copy a near same power as the hearts of The Heroes of The Light. Ven, Terra and Aqua.
This could explain why Ven said, "Erase me." He wasn't suppose to exist. Just like the other two. As long as they were present, Ven will be hunted down by Master Xehanort so he could make Ven his puppet. Which explains things quite well, such as why Ven was merely frozen and not crushed to death wen he was caught in a death grip by the old man.

Of course, these are all made-up statements, but they are quite believable. I kept on emphasising on the statement, "Ven was created out of Sora." Don't ask me why, I find it shocking myself. I must have discovered something that made me so sure, but so far I couldn't remember what it is. Too bad, lol.

[vanilla bear]

i'm not following you when you say things are explained quite well, like why ven was only frozen and not crushed to death..

[Xuan]

These are completely made up statements, they are just assumptions of what that might had happened.

[vanilla bear]

yeah but why do you think ven was only frozen and the old man didn't bother finishing him off?

[Roxas[Nobody]]

yeah but why do you think ven was only frozen and the old man didn't bother finishing him off?

becuz he wants to erase him not kill him.......lol

[UltimaxWeapon]

becuz he wants to erase him not kill him.......lol

erasing him and killing him would be the same thing though

[Key of Valor]

Not exactly. You can be erased without being killed and you can be killed
without being erased. Also you can be both killed and erased so it really
depends on the actual result and means of the specfic situation.

Basically it depends on how you interpret it.

[UltimaxWeapon]

Not exactly. You can be erased without being killed and you can be killed
without being erased. Also you can be both killed and erased so it really
depends on the actual result and means of the specfic situation.

Basically it depends on how you interpret it.

i dont understand, erasing him would be like just makin him go away for ever like they never existed

[Key of Valor]

Depends on what you're erasing. The quote "Erase Me" can be interpreted to
mean multple things. In a rare situation earsing might not result in death but
it's unlikely for it to turn out that way.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

erasing him and killing him would be the same thing though

when i think a erase i think like erasing memory or taking him out of existence(mean no one remembering him)

[vanilla bear]

that's possible.. i remember being very confused at the beginning of kh2 when kairi didn't remember sora.

[Xuan]

What makes you think the old man is the one that will 'erase him'?
Ven would never say that to the old man, I believe its either Terra or Aqua.
By erase him means not only wipe out his completely being, the memories of his existence... HIS EXISTENCE was completely wiped out.

And why do you think the old man didn't finish off Ven when he had him in his grasp?

[Roxas[Nobody]]

What makes you think the old man is the one that will 'erase him'?
Ven would never say that to the old man, I believe its either Terra or Aqua.
By erase him means not only wipe out his completely being, the memories of his existence... HIS EXISTENCE was completely wiped out.

And why do you think the old man didn't finish off Ven when he had him in his grasp?

chilllllllllllllll
its jus a theory...lol

[Xuan]

=.=" I'm not angry or something. Does my replies always give people such impression?

[KH2 Mikoto]

I agree with Roxas{ nobody} , maybe that Ven is Roxas (with a different name) but the old man erased his memories of everyone and everyone's memory of him , so when the becomes "Roxas" he has no past memories of his battles and friends.
=|

Give me a while to sort things out in my brain.

<3

[lionsbarrage]

ugh no because Ven and Roxas are 2 different people, especially when u thrown in the part that Roxas is from Sora, however Xuan erase does not have to mean fro mexistence, it could just be memory, it can be interpreted in many ways as key of valor said. Actaully there is more to that line, from what i gather it apears he is speaking to terra saying, "dont count on me anymore, just erase me." it may not be exact but u get what its saying.

[vanilla bear]

where are you guys finding all these quotes? kh3.net? i'm missing a buncha stuff it seems

[tam_107]

where are you guys finding all these quotes? kh3.net? i'm missing a buncha stuff it seems

im always missing something

[axel(bond of flame)]

I agree with Roxas{ nobody} , maybe that Ven is Roxas (with a different name) but the old man erased his memories of everyone and everyone's memory of him , so when the becomes "Roxas" he has no past memories of his battles and friends.
=|

Give me a while to sort things out in my brain.

<3


that is impossible because sora was only 4 and he didnt become a heartless yet until he was 14 so roxas didnt even exist yet

all i no about how roxas and ven are connected is that how nomura gave a hint that if u no the connection between roxas and sora ull no who ven is ??????????????////

[Xuan]

I know who Ven is, but my theory is unacceptable by people lol. Never mind that.

And vanilla, if you really want to find information, you can get it easily at everywhere in this forum. Trust me, I have not miss a single bit, in fact I studied only the information given in this website and the game I'm playing.

[Key of Valor]

Xaun. You state things as fact when they're only
theories, suggestions, ideas, or interpretations.

You THINK you know who Ven is. You think you're
the only one to develope a theory about Ven that
makes sense? I have seen many theories about
Ven and if there is anything I learned it is to have
an open mind for you can learn a great deal if you
are willing to admit you might be wrong. In many
of your posts you make yourself sound like your
smarter than the rest. As smart as you may be does
not give you the right to talk down to everyone.
You might not be noticing it but your posts make you
sound like you're acting arogant. This aside I think
you have a good theory. I'm still not yet convinced
by your ideas but I accept that what I believe could
be wrong and you could in fact be right.

As for Nomura's hint I think that is a major clue
in understanding who Ven really is and somewhere
we can understand the answer by understanding
the link between Roxas and Sora.

[vanilla bear]

I know who Ven is, but my theory is unacceptable by people lol. Never mind that.

And vanilla, if you really want to find information, you can get it easily at everywhere in this forum. Trust me, I have not miss a single bit, in fact I studied only the information given in this website and the game I'm playing.

sorry xuan, i kinda have a life.. i just like having the general knowledge so when the game comes out i'm not all 'WTF?'

[Xuan]

LOL, that's nice, at least you could do something else when u're free rather than studying about KH!

And KeyOfValor, I already said never mind that.

[KH2 Mikoto]

that is impossible because sora was only 4 and he didnt become a heartless yet until he was 14 so roxas didnt even exist yet

all i no about how roxas and ven are connected is that how nomura gave a hint that if u no the connection between roxas and sora ull no who ven is ??????????????////

Maybe a Nobody already exists inside the heart.
=0

lol , I knew I was wrong, but a theory is a theory.


but another thought I had is what if Sora is like a reincarnation of Ven? Kind of like how in Inuyasha that Kikiyo and Kagome share some resembling appearances.

So Sora could be like a reincarnation of some sort. Since Ven had the power to wield a key, the power was given to Sora, which gave Roxas that power since he is a nobody created from a key weilder
.
So that when Roxas was created, he inherited Sora's inner Ven's appearance. Kind of like Ven was inside Sora's all along after he passed on. but that makes no sense, because Sora was already 4 years old.

Well, maybe Sora's heart took in Ven's heart when Ven died. Thus giving Ven's appearance to Roxas for being a part of Sora.

....did anyone understand that?

[vanilla bear]

Maybe a Nobody already exists inside the heart.
=0

lol , I knew I was wrong, but a theory is a theory.


but another thought I had is what if Sora is like a reincarnation of Ven? Kind of like how in Inuyasha that Kikiyo and Kagome share some resembling appearances.

So Sora could be like a reincarnation of some sort. Since Ven had the power to wield a key, the power was given to Sora, which gave Roxas that power since he is a nobody created from a key weilder
.
So that when Roxas was created, he inherited more of Ven's appearance instead of Sora's.

geez. I need to stop confusing myself. =P


eh, the thing about reincarnation is that it seems a little too complex for disney to use.. being 20 years old, i wouldn't mind it, but this game is targeted at younger audiences as well.. they won't really grasp what's going on.. i do think there may be something in the keyblades though

[KH2 Mikoto]

Totally understandable.

but still, that's just another one of my fantasy-ish thoughts.
but wouldn't that offend any Christian players for having reincarnation?

[vanilla bear]

i'm a christian, but i wouldn't be offended by reincarnation in the game... square enix is a japanese company so obviously they're religious beliefs will differ from christians.. however, being a globalized company they also have to take that into account..

[KH2 Mikoto]

If they didn't use reincarntion, I'm sticking with my "When Ven died , his heart was put into Sora, which gave Roxas his looks" thing.

[vanilla bear]

his heart was put into sora? how so? or how do you think at least? you should check out my thread entitled Nobodies and Souls.. that opens up other possibilities

[KH2 Mikoto]

Well, I'm kind thinking how since Kairi's heart was inside Sora's in KH1, so why not a third heart? and when Sora unlocked his with that dark keyblade, he lost all the hearts inside of him which created Roxas. so Ven's Heart formed Roxas or like a Ven 2.0 , or something.

and maybe when a key wielder dies somehow, their heart isnt lost to Kingdom Hearts, maybe it seeks a new home inside strong hearted person?

but nobodies dont have hearts. but maybe Roxas is like a "special" kind of Nobody.
One formed from a Keybearer.

[lionsbarrage]

but when a person dies, his heart does not go to KH, ur just dead, even if it did go the heart would be nothing more than a heart with the body and soul dead.

As for the reincarnation thing similar to Kikyo and kagome , that is different as well, i mean Ven was already alive and stuff when Sora was around. In any case its really not confirmed by the way the statements are if Ven is a normal living person.

As for Xuan, key of valor is right, When u make a post saying "iknow who Ven is but people refuse to accept my theory, that is pure arogance and it is rude behavior, even if u said nevermind, that post still should not have been, it would have been better to just delete that post or at least edit it so that it doesnt show that part.

[Xuan]

Well, I'm not editing it no matter what you say, what done is done, the damage is there even though I do not mean it. But you're right, and I hereby say sorry if I had offended any of you in anyway.

[KH2 Mikoto]

but when a person dies, his heart does not go to KH, ur just dead, even if it did go the heart would be nothing more than a heart with the body and soul dead.

As for the reincarnation thing similar to Kikyo and kagome , that is different as well, i mean Ven was already alive and stuff when Sora was around. In any case its really not confirmed by the way the statements are if Ven is a normal living person.

As for Xuan, key of valor is right, When u make a post saying "iknow who Ven is but people refuse to accept my theory, that is pure arogance and it is rude behavior, even if u said nevermind, that post still should not have been, it would have been better to just delete that post or at least edit it so that it doesnt show that part.

Sounds like you're a bit touchy when it comes to this.
Maybe if Ven died, he might have been killed by the Heartless.

If you had read my other posts I said that maybe when Ven somehow died, his heart sought for a new home, in the home of a strong hearted person. Which was Sora.

[lionsbarrage]

im not touchy about anything, only thing i do get touchy about is things that have already been proven truen, As for Ven not much is known still about him, only thing we do know is he look like Roxas, however he is a different perso nthen Roxas. We dont even really know if Ven is a normal living person though.

[vanilla bear]

Sounds like you're a bit touchy when it comes to this.
Maybe if Ven died, he might have been killed by the Heartless.

If you had read my other posts I said that maybe when Ven somehow died, his heart sought for a new home, in the home of a strong hearted person. Which was Sora.

so sora, during kh1, had three hearts inside of him?

[KH2 Mikoto]

Only a theory , but who knows.
His, Kairi's and Ven's.

But my thoughts on why he does look like Roxas is that, say if Ven was killed/died, his heart wasn't lost. It made a new home inside Sora even though Sora was already born. And when he unlocked his heart with the dark keyblade, Roxas was created.
So my theory is that maybe Ven's heart or a fragment of his heart formed Roxas, but had no memories. Which explains Roxas's appearance.

I don't know how to put it any simpler , but that's what I'm thinking.

and yeah, I already know that he is a different person from Roxas, but maybe him and Roxas do have a connection.

[Key of Valor]

Sora's having Ven's heart is a very popular theory from what I've come to
understand. I think it is very possible but so far I haven't seen it explained
without it contradicting my personal strong belief that the Ansem Reports
are true.

Also if someone dies naturally the soul by the dictation of their heart transcends
to the next life. There are unique scenerios though that would result in odd
outcomes. I won't explain any though because they're just theories and are
a bit easy to contradict but as situations between Sora, Kairi, and Riku have
shown us, wierd things can most diffinitely occur.

[KH2 Mikoto]

As said in vanilla bear's sig, Hearts are unpredictable.

=]

I haven't read the Ansem reports in a few months. I'll re-read them tonight when I take a break from Assassin's Creed. And over the course of the weekend , I might take notes and write down my thoughts and such.

As you can see, I have no life. lol

[Key of Valor]

Well the Ansem Reports are listed on this site so you could just take a quick look.
The problem that I have is that it says that Namine is made of Sora's body and
soul and I believe it so it's hard for me to except a theory that doesn't explain
Roxas's birth since a body and soul would be abscence in his creation. I developed
my own theory to explain this situation but I'm always look for better reasoning.

[KH2 Mikoto]

My opinion on Namine is that since Kairi was a princess of heart, a princess's body cannot turn into a heartless. Just a shell with a soul.
but Namine does know Sora a bit like Kairi does, so that is a pretty good theory.
=]

I just had another thought about Ven , Terra, and Aqua. What if those three all have connections with Sora, Riku, and Kairi.

Like, if all three had some how mysteriously died, their hearts were spared and placed inside each one.
Ven with Sora
Terra with Riku
and Aqua with Kairi.

Just another fantasy thought I have. lol

[Roxas[Nobody]]

maybe there elements link there hearts and soul:confused: :confused:

[KH2 Mikoto]

Possibly. Like how all their names mean different kind of elements like wind , water, and earth and such.

Do you think it's possible that Roxas could have been formed without the need for an empty body and soul?
I mean, he is a keyweilder after all.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

Possibly. Like how all their names mean different kind of elements like wind , water, and earth and such.

Do you think it's possible that Roxas could have been formed without the need for an empty body and soul?
I mean, he is a keyweilder after all.

no you cant just form from nothing its like say u want to have a baby and a baby appears

[KH2 Mikoto]

Yeah, I know that.
I'm just trying to explain my thoughts. Ven or Roxas arent even human, so maybe they could have been created by some kind force.
or..something.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

Yeah, I know that.
I'm just trying to explain my thoughts. Ven or Roxas arent even human, so maybe they could have been created by some kind force.
or..something.


how is ven not human?

[KH2 Mikoto]

how should I know that? lol

forgot to add the word 'maybe' at the beginning of that sentence.

[lionsbarrage]

how is ven not human?


We specualte so based on the fact of 2 things.

1.because of the statement Ven made, saying "dont count on me anymore just erase me."

2. and the second being if we were to understand the connection of Sora and ROxas will be able to find out who Ven is. SO that is another reason we thin kVen is not a normal living person.

[Xuan]

We'll be able to understand 'Who Ven Is'.
Not 'What Ven is'.
Ven is human alright. That's for sure. No matter what had created him, he is human, no doubt.

[lionsbarrage]

We'll be able to understand 'Who Ven Is'.
Not 'What Ven is'.
Ven is human alright. That's for sure. No matter what had created him, he is human, no doubt.

There u go again, making it seem as if ur theory is right and trying to make it as a fact, which as of right now it isn't.

Right now there isnt any proof as to who Ven is, like i said there is only speculation based on what we know so far, so none of us can be sure. I mean look at Roxas, he seems like a normal human, but he turns out not to be.

[Xuan]

I'm just stating what I believe. It's up to you to trust it or not.

[Tidus dude]

OK, I do believe Ven and Roxas have some sort of connection.. if not...Namura is crazy. >.> We know that Roxas is a Nobody= not human. That however doesn't instantly mean that Ven is infact a Nobody!! or heartless or whatever... some of you guys are basing your statements off of pure assumption..

Any doubts?

[Key of Valor]

I don't think anyone is saying that Ven is defintely not human but many
believe that to be a good possibility. I myself believe that Ven may not be
human but there is nothing to support either assumption of Ven being
human or not and I am willing believe both.

[KH2 Mikoto]

I said "Maybe Ven or Roxas may not even be human."

I never said they were or weren't.
Maybe I'll just stop posting here. =\

[vanilla bear]

I said "Maybe Ven or Roxas may not even be human."

I never said they were or weren't.
Maybe I'll just stop posting here. =\

don't stop with your ideas.. some theories are better than none at all.. nobodies aren't human, right? the only real evidence we seem to have of ven not being a human is his comment, "just erase me"

[KH2 Mikoto]

!
I just remembered that in one of the pictures of Terra taking out a keyblade. And know how Roxas in the prolouge keyblade appeared by data-ish digital things.

So when Ven said "Just erase me." , maybe that all of this is happening in Ansem's virtual world thing.

[NeoRoxas]

don't stop with your ideas.. some theories are better than none at all.. nobodies aren't human, right? the only real evidence we seem to have of ven not being a human is his comment, "just erase me"

hmm just because he said erase me dont mean hes not human....:p
ive posted this b4 in a different thread that he just wanted his memories erased or something along those lines

[vanilla bear]

oh i'm not saying he isn't human; i'm only saying that seems to be the only evidence of a possibility that he isn't human.. and to kh2 mikoto, do you have a link to that picture?

[KH2 Mikoto]

No. sorry.
I found it at KH Ultimania i think. it may also be found in a thread here too.

[lionsbarrage]

oh i'm not saying he isn't human; i'm only saying that seems to be the only evidence of a possibility that he isn't human.. and to kh2 mikoto, do you have a link to that picture?

Well that isnt the only evidence, i mean With Ven and Roxas looking alike, and for the fact that if we figure out the connection of Sora and Roxas, we can find out who Ven is, So if there sa similarity in there somewhere it could also mean VEn is not human ethier.

[KH2 Mikoto]

Yup. So when we find out who Ven really is, we might also find out the connection.

I'm still sticking to my 3 hearts inside Sora and when he unlocked them, Ven's heart became Roxas , theory.