The Connection of Ven and Roxas: A Theory

[Xuan]

'The other side of Sora still sleeps'

We can safely assume this 'other mind' as Ven. I believe most people will come to the same solution. Ven is the mind attached to Sora, the deleted mind that laid asleep within Sora.
As we know, Roxas has the exact same shape as Ven. His body and face are exactly alike as Ven when he was created. Yet even though Ven's form (His body) was recreated, Ven's mind still sleeps.

But for how long?
In Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories, Sora had went to sleep to regain his memories that was altered by Namine. Unknown to the others, Ven's lost memories and data were slowly reconstructed as well, because, 'When the mind touches, they always come back'. I'll explain the connection between Ven and Sora some other time. Now, we concentrate on Ven and Roxas.

Therefore, Roxas, Sora's Nobody joined the Organization XIII because that was a place where everyone's alike. They are all without hearts. A place Nobodies could call home. As you guys has seen in the 3 secs video, Roxas was using the Kingdom Key to fight. As Sora's Nobody, he is, in other words, 'the other' Sora as well, and therefore has the ability to use the Keyblade. This raised several questions: If Roxas had been using Kingdom Key as his main weapon, then why the twin Keyblades afterwards? If I'm not mistaken, Oathkeeper and Oblivion) How exactly did he draw two completely different Keyblades as his own?
Before I explain those, let us see seek the reasons of Roxas' sudden desire to leave the Organization. In my opinion, Roxas' life in the Organization is good. Very good. He had a friend, Axel, and that is more than enough for a Nobody could ever dream of. But he left so he could seek for his TRUE self.

My guess is that he seeks for the true owner of his body, Ven.
But nobody suddenly leaves a place sounds home in search for his self with no reason. So it must be connected to the mysterious appearance of the 14th member. In my opinion, the 14th member had met with Roxas, give intriguing and frightful hints about Ven's presence in him, and the one who told about his remaining life. Thus explaining why Roxas said the following words:

'I will disappear from this world in 151 days'

I believe that after some time near the before of after the appearance of the 14th member, he finds himself suddenly able to use two Keyblades that he had never seen before. I predict that after some more time, he began to understand what exactly this two Keyblades represent. The Oathkeeper is his presence, the Oblivion is Ven's, the other mind of Sora. Although Ven still sleeps, but his abilities is slowly awakened. My guess is at a point in the game, Roxas might be angered or something else, losing control of his mind and execute attacks or powers that he had never imagined possible. Thus leading to his meetings with the 14th member to understand more about this frightening and powerful presence. The 14th member MIGHT be the traitor of Organization XIII because she might be the main factor Roxas wanting to leave the Organization.
If you remember, Sora was weaker than Riku in swordfighting. But Roxas, a mere Nobody without a heart had defeated Riku. Also, even though Sora had won the battle against Roxas, it was because he caught Roxas by surprise when he suddenly summoned the pinned Keyblade to his hands. So why exactly Roxas so much stronger? My guess, Roxas had used both his and Ven's powers throught the Keyblades.

About the evidence about the Keyblades representing Roxas and Ven, there is solid evidence about this. Remember Sora can use the Drive Form only after he fused with Roxas. Sora can use two Keyblades because the other Keyblade, Starseeker was Roxas' Keyblade. About Valor, Wisdom, Master and Final Form, I can explain. Valor summons the strength of Roxas(Might be Ven's, Yen Sid's intention MIGHT be trying to hide Ven's presence, so far unclear), Wisdom summons wisdom power(Long range projectile fired from Keyblade, a power shown by Terra in BBS if I'm not mistaken), Master summons both powers and Final calls for the unity of all hearts (unclear). Each of this forms need another person to fuse along with Sora to control the massive power. Alone, Sora will lose control of his powers, I believe.
I believe when Sora was near awakening, Roxas couldn't quite use the Kingdom Key anymore. Ven's presence was so strong that it inhibits Sora's influence over Roxas. Roxas was Sora's Nobody, but he was only a Nobody, and although he was very strong, he was slowly losing(Another possibility: Ven's heart was slowly reawakening) and like they said, disappear in 151 days. But Roxas could increase Sora's influence over himself and defend his mind if he goes near Sora or his companion. In Deep Dive, Roxas had summoned the Kingdom Key to fight Riku. At that point, although Roxas might or might not have realised it, is that if he recombines with Sora, Ven's mind could be put into sleep again. Of course, there was a chance the 14th member had told Roxas that his only chances to live is to leave the Organisation and search for... someone.

Two minds in one body might have cause Roxas to seem more human than Nobody, but there was no information proving this statement. However, it is a possibility.
Axel has always knew this. I guessed everyone knows why. And if you don't, Roxas had spoke this 151 days in the presence of Axel.

Now this raises more questions: Do Namine has an other like Roxas? If yes, could that other be the 14th member? It is NOT Namine afterall. But I lack further information to continue researching.

EDIT: Remember Kingdom Hearts 2 was actually made to be the end of the game. So whatever decision made at the last minute some parts could not be changed. And there's one thing for sure. Roxas did not go to search for Sora. If he did, he would've gone with Riku, not fight with Riku, and not react like a maniac that keeps saying, "Who's Sora? I'm Roxas!".

As for the drive form, if I'm not mistaken, many of you said that you didn't understand how the Drive Form suddenly popped out just like that. Some of them even asked why Sora could suddenly use two Keyblades.

Obviously Yen Sid had something to do with the Drive Form abilities. I suspected that he knew about the previous Keyblade Wielders, and Roxas through Mickey, or by other resources. Sora obtained the Drive Form ability from an orb given by Yen Sid if I'm not mistaken. That orb was to summon Roxas' powers to aid Sora (Might be Ven, but not likely, cause the second Keyblade was an OathKeeper), but in the process controlling the ernomous power so that both person does not lose control.

Many would agree that Riku was way better in swordfighting than Sora. Sora was stronger than Riku only because he was strong in the heart. And about Roxas' battle? As I've said before, it was a twin Keyblade. Roxas HIMSELF was not stronger than Sora, but by using the power of the other mind, Ven's power (The Keyblade Oblivion symbolises Ven's power) and his own original powers, he managed to defeat Sora AT FIRST before taken by surprise.

You need to be more flexible, lionbarrage. There are so many possibilities, so many different futures, and so many things in the story that seemed unsignificant, but very important. You never would've thought the reason why suddenly Sora could use a second Keyblade do you? Think deeply and you'll find a creepy question came out: How exactly did that second Keyblade come from? For so long, Sora had only used one Keyblade. Surely if there as a second Keyblade to suddenly pop out like that there will be need of logic explanation. And that's what I'm giving, in support of my theory, the connection between Ven and Roxas.

About Sora can become Form without friends, I neither deny nor acknowledge that possibility. It is possible.

I might left out some points that I wanted to point up because it was too long. I'll edit it frequently if I'm find out something was missing or confusing. So far, this is my theory. A theory about Roxas and Ven.

[riku's darkness]

im pretty sure the two keyblades roxas uses are the oathkeeper and oblivion.
sorry if im wrong

[Xuan]

Really? I'll chnge it after I eat.

[Xuan]

... Is the theory too long or what?

[one winged angel]

well first of all buddy please no double posts lol


and second....it couldnt be ven couldnt be roxas because roxas is the same age sora is(from what we know, because he is sora) and ven is about 10 years older than sora and third its true they do have a connection, but i dont think that he is roxas

[Xuan]

Wait wait wait... I never said Roxas is Ven. I said that Ven, who was deleted in BBS, was now slowly reawakened in Roxas' body.

[lionsbarrage]

this totaaly contradicts what is already proven in the game itself, Roxas did not go looking for ven as his true self, it was Sora his dream were about Sora, and he mentions wheres Sora whe nfighting Riku.

Sora sis not need another person for his form abilities, by this i mean story wise not in game mechanics wise. Sora is obviously stronger thean Roxas and Riku, no where does it say riku is stronger in sword battle, plus he loses to Sora, as does Roxas, remember its 2 keyblades against 1, try evening up the numbers then see. And SOra did not need ROxas for his drive forms its cause of the clothes, it just hee needed roxas to awaken.

[Xuan]

Remember Kingdom Hearts 2 was actually made to be the end of the game. So whatever decision made at the last minute some parts could not be changed. And there's one thing for sure. Roxas did not go to search for Sora. If he did, he would've gone with Riku, not fight with Riku, and not react like a maniac that keeps saying, "Who's Sora? I'm Roxas!".

As for the drive form, if I'm not mistaken, many of you said that you didn't understand how the Drive Form suddenly popped out just like that. Some of them even asked why Sora could suddenly use two Keyblades.

Obviously Yen Sid had something to do with the Drive Form abilities. I suspected that he knew about the previous Keyblade Wielders, and Roxas through Mickey, or by other resources. Sora obtained the Drive Form ability from an orb given by Yen Sid if I'm not mistaken. That orb was to summon Roxas' powers to aid Sora (Might be Ven, but not likely, cause the second Keyblade was an OathKeeper), but in the process controlling the ernomous power so that both person does not lose control.

Many would agree that Riku was way better in swordfighting than Sora. Sora was stronger than Riku only because he was strong in the heart. And about Roxas' battle? As I've said before, it was a twin Keyblade. Roxas HIMSELF was not stronger than Sora, but by using the power of the other mind, Ven's power (The Keyblade Oblivion symbolises Ven's power) and his own original powers, he managed to defeat Sora AT FIRST before taken by surprise.

You need to be more flexible, lionbarrage. There are so many possibilities, so many different futures, and so many things in the story that seemed unsignificant, but very important. You never would've thought the reason why suddenly Sora could use a second Keyblade do you? Think deeply and you'll find a creepy question came out: How exactly did that second Keyblade come from? For so long, Sora had only used one Keyblade. Surely if there as a second Keyblade to suddenly pop out like that there will be need of logic explanation. And that's what I'm giving, in support of my theory, the connection between Ven and Roxas.

About Sora can become Form without friends, I neither deny nor acknowledge that possibility. It is possible.

[lionsbarrage]

Remember Kingdom Hearts 2 was actually made to be the end of the game. So whatever decision made at the last minute some parts could not be changed. And there's one thing for sure. Roxas did not go to search for Sora. If he did, he would've gone with Riku, not fight with Riku, and not react like a maniac that keeps saying, "Who's Sora? I'm Roxas!".

As for the drive form, if I'm not mistaken, many of you said that you didn't understand how the Drive Form suddenly popped out just like that. Some of them even asked why Sora could suddenly use two Keyblades.

Obviously Yen Sid had something to do with the Drive Form abilities. I suspected that he knew about the previous Keyblade Wielders, and Roxas through Mickey, or by other resources. Sora obtained the Drive Form ability from an orb given by Yen Sid if I'm not mistaken. That orb was to summon Roxas' powers to aid Sora (Might be Ven, but not likely, cause the second Keyblade was an OathKeeper), but in the process controlling the ernomous power so that both person does not lose control.

Many would agree that Riku was way better in swordfighting than Sora. Sora was stronger than Riku only because he was strong in the heart. And about Roxas' battle? As I've said before, it was a twin Keyblade. Roxas HIMSELF was not stronger than Sora, but by using the power of the other mind, Ven's power (The Keyblade Oblivion symbolises Ven's power) and his own original powers, he managed to defeat Sora AT FIRST before taken by surprise.

You need to be more flexible, lionbarrage. There are so many possibilities, so many different futures, and so many things in the story that seemed unsignificant, but very important. You never would've thought the reason why suddenly Sora could use a second Keyblade do you? Think deeply and you'll find a creepy question came out: How exactly did that second Keyblade come from? For so long, Sora had only used one Keyblade. Surely if there as a second Keyblade to suddenly pop out like that there will be need of logic explanation. And that's what I'm giving, in support of my theory, the connection between Ven and Roxas.

About Sora can become Form without friends, I neither deny nor acknowledge that possibility. It is possible.

Blieve me i am flexible, but i also tkae what we see and find out it contradicts with some thoeries, Rreally it doesnt matter whos better at sword fighting riku or Sor since it has nothing to do with this, considering the fact Sora manages to win, and its not because his heart gives him the bilities to fight. Nad it was already confirmed that Roxas did go look for Sora, not ven he had sensed nothing about ven only Sora, He fought Riku, but really Riku himself said he prolly didnt need to fight him, since he was leaving to go look for Sora himself.

The leyblades Roxas has, right now there is no proff where those keyblades come from, and cannot be said thhey came from Ven, however when we go to the orbs, we also cannot basse it comes from Roxas powers, because Roxas already reunited with Sora, so basically hes back to fully normal. That would be like saying if he had gooten those new clothes and orb back in KH1 before he became a heartless, that the orb was from Roxas who wasnt even born yet.

[Xuan]

Oh now I get it. I didn't say clearly what I meant. Sorry.

What I mean is Roxas search for someone (Which is then known that the person is Sora) to CONTROL Ven's mind that is gaining control day by day. And at the end of 151 day, Ven would awakened and Roxas will be gone forever. The 14th member had informed Roxas that if he could find someone, he might could still be saved, although I'm pretty sure she didn't say how. A mistake. Sorry, long theories are nasty to write.

[lionsbarrage]

well, theres nothing really that contradicts that, so it is possible, however i dunno theres really no strong theories supporting so but, like i said still possible.

[Xuan]

Phew. I was worried that writing such a long theory that I will probably make some serious mistake. At least that is fixed. Well, what about the others? I didn't make this for fun, I make this for people to understand what would happen in 358/2 Days. This is a small summary prediction of 358/2 Days, as well as explaining the significance of the connection between Ven and Roxas.

I'll make another theory by tomorrow if I'm not busy. A BBS theory, where I will explain the connection between Ven and Sora.

As well as the most intriguing part: Whether Ven was created out of Sora's heart, or Sora created from Ven.

Most people believe that the timeline clearly indicates Ven before Sora, but they all made a common mistake, that is to ignore one important clue Nomura given to correct their path of investigation. Or curosity.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

how did ven use his memories and y is ven sleep i think you got ven and sora confused
the 2 keyblade symbolize kairi and riku
the drive has nothing to do with roxas sora clothes had powers


Flora: Your garments also have other powers---but you will have to discoverwhat they are as you continue on your journey.

starkeeper is mickey's blade
valor uses the power of his friend ship wit goofy its like they fuse
wisdom uses the power of donald
master is uses the power of both his friends

it doesnt explain how roxas got ven's body

[tam_107]

Oh now I get it. I didn't say clearly what I meant. Sorry.

What I mean is Roxas search for someone (Which is then known that the person is Sora) to CONTROL Ven's mind that is gaining control day by day. And at the end of 151 day, Ven would awakened and Roxas will be gone forever. The 14th member had informed Roxas that if he could find someone, he might could still be saved, although I'm pretty sure she didn't say how. A mistake. Sorry, long theories are nasty to write.

so it took u four posts to relize that u were being misinterpreted???i mean it is like u have two minds.one second your 100% with this thing,but the next u are 100% with something else.

[Key of Valor]

Nice theory. I see you have taken many things into account.

I would probably give it a 9 out of 10. Maybe even higher.

As good as it is I do not personally believe it. Too many made up
situations and it goes against my theory that I feel very strongly
about that Roxas's Keyblades are formed from his connection with
Kairi and Riku. This is because I believe keychain keyblades need
to be connected to a heart and since Roxas lacked I thought it was
natural to assume that Kairi and Riku were involved since they seem
to match the Keyblades. Of course this is just my theory and therefore
no facts in any way contridict you great theory.

I can't really argue with you about the facts except perhaps
you should exclude your reference to the Deep Dive Trailer
because there are many things that are inconsistent with
Actual game. A bit too many to draw facts from and sadly
I must say you should probably pretend that you never saw
the Kingdom Key.

You are good at making theories but perhaps you could explain
WHY Roxas was so suprised to see Sora's Keyblade re appear
in his hands. Was it because Roxas wasn't able to do that?

[Roxas[Nobody]]

i jus cant believe it took him so long to come up wit tht...wow
even though im a fan of the ven has roxas's body theory
i was the first to say

[Key of Valor]

Wait a minute? He's saying Roxas has Ven's body?
I thought he's just saying Roxas took the form of Ven.

[Xuan]

It does not symbolises Riku or Kairi, the twin Keyblades. Look more closely and you'll discover it.

As for the Ven and other things, I really don't have the energy to explain things all over again, just makes myself frustated. Check my theory again and study it.

If lionbarrage, another theorist and the person involved, that I consider good enough did not choose to comment on my misinterpretion, I do not think that you should mock me then.

Instead of my mistake, check out the theory and give your comments.

And oh, it is Roxas having Ven's body to be precise, not the other way around.

And Key of Valor, personally I like your Keyblade theory very much, but fact just does not support it. Sorry.

Although about the Keychains, I believe yours (or is it kcore23's?), that it is carved out from a strong hearted person's memories.

[Key of Valor]

It think it was Kcore23 who said memory. I said heart but Kcore23 has a good point.

Anyway I was asking if it's Sora's left over body taking the form of Ven
or is it that Roxas used Ven's actual original body in his composition.
I personally think you meant the first one.

Lastly I'm intersted of what disproves my Keyblade theory?

[Roxas[Nobody]]

It does not symbolises Riku or Kairi, the twin Keyblades. Look more closely and you'll discover it.

As for the Ven and other things, I really don't have the energy to explain things all over again, just makes myself frustated. Check my theory again and study it.

If lionbarrage, another theorist and the person involved, that I consider good enough did not choose to comment on my misinterpretion, I do not think that you should mock me then.

Instead of my mistake, check out the theory and give your comments.

And oh, it is Roxas having Ven's body to be precise, not the other way around.

And Key of Valor, personally I like your Keyblade theory very much, but fact just does not support it. Sorry.

Although about the Keychains, I believe yours (or is it kcore23's?), that it is carved out from a strong hearted person's memories.


well it kinda sounds dumb the oathkeeper represents roxas (not true the oatheeper sora got from Kairi's chain tht sora promised to return)
and the obivilon representing Ven so what is ven dark now the obivion represents riku thts y i believe they had the riku,sora, and kairi lay in the sand and then roxas pop out i think there all part of him sora had his and kairis heart and stabbed himself with rikus blade thts what i think he connects them all with the two keyblades meaning them to

[Key of Valor]

It's not dumb but instead a different perspective that does not
allow itself to be blinded by the simple answer. His theory makes
sense but then again so does the Kairi/Riku theory, doesn't it?
Because from what I've observed I have believed to be acceptable.

[UltimaxWeapon]

well it kinda sounds dumb the oathkeeper represents roxas (not true the oatheeper sora got from Kairi's chain tht sora promised to return)
and the obivilon representing Ven so what is ven dark now the obivion represents riku thts y i believe they had the riku,sora, and kairi lay in the sand and then roxas pop out i think there all part of him sora had his and kairis heart and stabbed himself with rikus blade thts what i think he connects them all with the two keyblades meaning them to

yaa dont u think that oathkeeper would represent sora since roxas is practicly the darkness of sora, but oathkeeper and olblivion both represent the darkness (oblivion) and the light(oathkeeper) of roxas, the darknesss mightve came out of roxas when sora stabbed himself with riku's keyblade.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

yaa dont u think that oathkeeper would represent sora since roxas is practicly the darkness of sora, but oathkeeper and olblivion both represent the darkness (oblivion) and the light(oathkeeper) of roxas, the darknesss mightve came out of roxas when sora stabbed himself with riku's keyblade.

no i think it represents the connection and friendship tht kairi and riku had the light from kairi's heart the darkness from riku's blade

[Xuan]

Exactly my point. The Keyblade of Darkness represents the Darkness in Roxas (Oblivion) and the Light in Roxas (Oathkeeper) fighting for control. Roxas' presence was represented by Oathkeeper, and Ven's presence represented by Oblivion. As I said in my theory, there's only 151 days before Ven takes back control of his body. (I must say, that body of Roxas? was created from Sora but shaped according to Ven's previous form.)

I emphasis my point here. I've cut short some points because they are too long, but it seems I have to say it.

In a human, there are a dominant mind, and many recessive personalities. Think of a split personalities(They sometimes have up to seven different personalities, shocking huh?) people and you'll understand what I mean. Those people have two completely different minds: Usually the recessive personality is the opposite of the dominant's mind. Only on rare occasions that two different personalities are the same.

Roxas is one of the reccessive personalities created out from Sora. He is more aggressive and more reactive to anger. He is actually one with Sora's mind, but when Sora turned into a heartless, Roxas was split away from Sora. This recessive personality, which is now understood as a part of Sora's soul, combines with the body and formed another person. Yet the heart is only one, unlike the soul. Therefore Nobodies do not have heart. Assume that the heart could split like the soul, then Nobodies would have hearts as well.

The body however, was shaped from Ven's mind. Ven has laid dormant in Sora for many years. I have no idea why, but it seems that on that unique case of the release of two hearts had stirred some part of Ven to trigger a copy of Ven's body as Roxas' body, then his mind transferred to Roxas' body as well. I mean Ven's body was copied from his own memories(Or something else) as created as Roxas' body.

Now here comes the interesting part. If my theory is true, Ven's mind was slowly revived as the reconstruction of Sora's memories continues. I do not know why, it wasn't important anyway. at the end of 151 days, Roxas' mind would be wiped out, and Ven's mind would be reawakened and he will take back control of Roxas' body(Actually his).

Why does this happened? Because Roxas was in the end, a Nobody. As a recessive mind/personality in Sora, he was weaker than Ven. He did not have a heart. Although he as the mighty Sora's Nobody, a Keyblade Wielder, his mind was no match for Ven's. Ven's mind is the dominant mind. Roxas had no chance to reclaim Ven's body was Ven awakes. The dominant will take over the recessive. The strong will take over the weak. That is the rule of surival.

You could bet that Ven's wristband acted as a connector between Sora and Roxas. Ven's mind was slowly transferred from Sora to Roxas. That wristband acts as a connector. At the end of 151 days, Ven's mind would be completely tranferred to Roxas, and Ven will awake.

The Keyblades was the effects of Ven's mind. As I've said, Sora had not taken two but one Keyblade. What are the chances that a second Keyblade pop out for no reason? Of course and naturally, that keyblade belonged to someone else.

Another Keyblade Wielder. Ven. and Sora's other self, Roxas.

Three Keyblades. One destiny.

KeyofValor, I'm really sorry but I've forgotten about ur theory. It's been long since I've last seen your theories, so I forgotten.

RoxasNobody, ur writing sucks. I spend less time studying for exams than to read your words.

[lionsbarrage]

its a good theory, but i completely disagree with it, for one it is so complicated for even us to understand, how is the younger audience that plsy Kh going to?

As for other reasons, that dominant reccsive thing is just wa out the window.

i mena for Roxas to have 2 keyblades, i dont think it really matters as to why one is oathkeeper and one is b oblivion, my opinion for that is just the fact that since he is a nobody, he is torn between light and dark, both represented by the keybaldes he wields. Or it could even be both by my opinion nad the theory of his connection between Kairi and Riku. However i do not think the keyblade, mor especi fically the oblivion has anything to do with Ven. there is no supporting evidence of it, For one Ven was not evil or even looking to be as Terra was, nor were any of them wielded the type of keyblades of today.

As for the fact of multiple keyblades, well it is in fact possible to summon up more than one, from what we see. As with Roxas Sora is able to do the same when in drive forms, and the keyblades he has are determined just from the keychain attached to it. and u cannot say he gets it from roxas or Ven. becuase it that were the case, then he would be able to summon up 2 keyblades before he akwakens from his sleep, or even before he turns int oa heartless. In fact for the time he faces Roxas, in the fight if use the reaction command Sora can have 3.

Adding to that , ven could also had no part in a creation of Sora since Sora at the time is about 4 years old.

no one can deny the fact that all 3 are connected in a wa, especially the ven and roxas part, i mean their face even though the hiairstyle is bit different the yare the same even the size of their bodies, however just cause they are connect, doesnt mean it has to have such a big complicated thing. Theories of ervyone here are all well thought up, and it is open for people to speculate on, however it is tough when theres alot of things that contradicts them, or says otherwise.

basically i do not agree with this thoery much, as for key of valors and roxas(nobody). there theories are very similar as they are to mine, for theirs though i do fully agree upon their theorys to the full point ido take it they sure know their stuff.

[Xuan]

Huh uh. This are not relevant in the story, which is why what makes it so complicated. What we are discussing might not even show up in the game. The reason I put the dominant recessive thing is to make you guys understand what is a Nobody. Naturally for young players they did not need to study what the heck is a Nobody to win the game. It was professional researching on the nature of Nobodies. Some people here discussed what makes a person evil. Some of you asked whether heartless is evil. Just face it: Do you need to understand whether heartless are good or not to win the game? To understand their journey? Would that even help?

You said that Sora was able to summon two Keyblades to fight in Drive Form. That is correct. I can say you did not completely read my story. Sora was able to use two Keyblades because Sora had fused with Roxas. Roxas had allowed Sora to use his keyblade in the battle.

And yes, if King Mickey or even Yen Sid did not seal Ven up from Sora, Sora would have been able to use three Keyblades. That is the theory. But at the risk of losing himself.

Why would King Mickey and Yen Sid hide Ven's presence from Sora? In Coded, King Mickey told Sora, "I was there before. It is time I speak the truth." My thought is, Sora had saw something that he shouldn't see in Castle Oblivion. Remember, Castle Oblivion is a place to study memories. There would be place whre memories are stored, and perhaps Sora had saw one memories somewhere in the castle. That memory could well be our secret trailer. The truth King Mickey said is most possibly to reveal the existence of Ven, Terra and Aqua, and the heavy responsibility Sora would bear in his next journey.

I believe after the last battle, Ven probably had lost control of his mind. Anger was a powerful emotion. Riku was a protagonist with a strong heart, but even he turned to the Darkness once. No surprise Ven might find something similiar. Which is why King Mickey and Yen Sid had tried to put Ven away for Sora, at least until Sora is strong enough to control Ven. The orb Yen Sid gave was no ordinary thing. Not only it pulls Roxas' power out to aid Sora in his battle, at the same time it controls the massive energy so that it would not overloads Sora.

I know my point is hard to understand, which makes me sad because not many truly understands me. And now it seems, there would be none in the future...

[tam_107]

And Key of Valor, personally I like your Keyblade theory very much, but fact just does not support it. Sorry.

Although about the Keychains, I believe yours (or is it kcore23's?), that it is carved out from a strong hearted person's memories.

u shouldn't be the one to tell someone that there theory isnt supported by facts,because a lot of your's is just a educated guess at best.

[vanilla bear]

will someone please clue me in as to why yen sid is so important?

[tam_107]

will someone please clue me in as to why yen sid is so important?

he isnt really in my opinion,all we know is that he trained mickey

[vanilla bear]

i see.. it just seems like every thread i go to has some theory involving yen sid and i didn't know if he had been confirmed to have a bigger role in one of these upcoming games or something

[Xuan]

Educated guess, yes, and most importantly I could use the storylines in KH to support my guess. Key of Valor's theory about the twin Keyblades Roxas used came from Kairi and Riku had nothing to support it. Roxas had never met Kairi before until he somehow contacted her in KH2. Roxas had been using the twin Keyblade far before that and before he fought Riku.

And tes, Yen Sid played a far bigger role than we thought. My guess, if correct, indicates just how important he and King Mickey had played in the entire game.

[tam_107]

Educated guess, yes, and most importantly I could use the storylines in KH to support my guess. Key of Valor's theory about the twin Keyblades Roxas used came from Kairi and Riku had nothing to support it. Roxas had never met Kairi before until he somehow contacted her in KH2. Roxas had been using the twin Keyblade far before that and before he fought Riku.

And tes, Yen Sid played a far bigger role than we thought. My guess, if correct, indicates just how important he and King Mickey had played in the entire game.

how does the storyline support your theory???and how does yen sid play a big role???

[Roxas[Nobody]]

yen sid didnt play a big role they could have had leon or aerith say tht he wasnt really needed

[The King of KH]

yen sid didnt play a big role they could have had leon or aerith say tht he wasnt really needed
he was just in one part............

[Roxas[Nobody]]

he was just in one part............

i kno i played the game more than i lived

[lionsbarrage]

Huh uh. This are not relevant in the story, which is why what makes it so complicated. What we are discussing might not even show up in the game. The reason I put the dominant recessive thing is to make you guys understand what is a Nobody. Naturally for young players they did not need to study what the heck is a Nobody to win the game. It was professional researching on the nature of Nobodies. Some people here discussed what makes a person evil. Some of you asked whether heartless is evil. Just face it: Do you need to understand whether heartless are good or not to win the game? To understand their journey? Would that even help?

You said that Sora was able to summon two Keyblades to fight in Drive Form. That is correct. I can say you did not completely read my story. Sora was able to use two Keyblades because Sora had fused with Roxas. Roxas had allowed Sora to use his keyblade in the battle.

And yes, if King Mickey or even Yen Sid did not seal Ven up from Sora, Sora would have been able to use three Keyblades. That is the theory. But at the risk of losing himself.

Why would King Mickey and Yen Sid hide Ven's presence from Sora? In Coded, King Mickey told Sora, "I was there before. It is time I speak the truth." My thought is, Sora had saw something that he shouldn't see in Castle Oblivion. Remember, Castle Oblivion is a place to study memories. There would be place whre memories are stored, and perhaps Sora had saw one memories somewhere in the castle. That memory could well be our secret trailer. The truth King Mickey said is most possibly to reveal the existence of Ven, Terra and Aqua, and the heavy responsibility Sora would bear in his next journey.

I believe after the last battle, Ven probably had lost control of his mind. Anger was a powerful emotion. Riku was a protagonist with a strong heart, but even he turned to the Darkness once. No surprise Ven might find something similiar. Which is why King Mickey and Yen Sid had tried to put Ven away for Sora, at least until Sora is strong enough to control Ven. The orb Yen Sid gave was no ordinary thing. Not only it pulls Roxas' power out to aid Sora in his battle, at the same time it controls the massive energy so that it would not overloads Sora.

I know my point is hard to understand, which makes me sad because not many truly understands me. And now it seems, there would be none in the future...


i have read ur entire theory and understood it, however some of that is bull, Sora could use 2 keyblades the whole time since that orb, however it was not due to roxas, Sora is no more different with Roxxas than without, because than it does not explain the other 3 orbs. As to Ven i dont think he as any ties to Sora physically, plus why would Ven be the one to turn evil he was t frozen, the one looking to turn evil from the trailer is Terra. As to what Sora saw in com that is also bull because we already played thru com, Sora did not see somehting new to him or us, except for TT which was already explained.

The thinking ove some part of Ven being in fused in ROxas much less Sora is completely frail, and to say that it may take over a persons body? This isnt something like naruto, andthough i think Ven was still kept in some way or form preserveed i dont think it was inside of Sora persay.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

i have read ur entire theory and understood it, however some of that is bull, Sora could use 2 keyblades the whole time since that orb, however it was not due to roxas, Sora is no more different with Roxxas than without, because than it does not explain the other 3 orbs. As to Ven i dont think he as any ties to Sora physically, plus why would Ven be the one to turn evil he was t frozen, the one looking to turn evil from the trailer is Terra. As to what Sora saw in com that is also bull because we already played thru com, Sora did not see somehting new to him or us, except for TT which was already explained.

The thinking ove some part of Ven being in fused in ROxas much less Sora is completely frail, and to say that it may take over a persons body? This isnt something like naruto, andthough i think Ven was still kept in some way or form preserveed i dont think it was inside of Sora persay.

i'd say he stays frozen

[vanilla bear]

i'd like to think that ven remains frozen and aqua takes him to the organization, looking for help

[Xuan]

Yen Sid was more than one part =.=" how come you guys couldn't see into the future =.="And Ven was definitely inside Roxas=.="and Sora is definitely related to Ven =.="And his body might stay frozen but his mind won't=.="And maybe Ven didn't go Dark, but he will still take over Roxas' body and Roxas will forever be gone=.="How hard is it to explain?
This is just my opinion.

[vanilla bear]

xuan, it's so hard to ever listen to what you're saying because all of your ideas tend to be abstract thoughts.. you just say what first comes to mind and hope it sounds good... if you gave more reasoning behind why you believe certain things rather than "it's just what i think" it would really help your case..

[Xuan]

Ask questions then, so I could give more reasoning and answers.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

Yen Sid was more than one part =.=" how come you guys couldn't see into the future =.="And Ven was definitely inside Roxas=.="and Sora is definitely related to Ven =.="And his body might stay frozen but his mind won't=.="And maybe Ven didn't go Dark, but he will still take over Roxas' body and Roxas will forever be gone=.="How hard is it to explain?
This is just my opinion.

most of these things i said already b4 you got on this topic

[Key of Valor]

Xaun, first off I would like to say that your theory is unique and possible but you
must understand how you support it with made up situations and yet still expect
everyone to believe it. You use your interpretation of things in the game as your
justification to your theory. You should know that every theory has room for
reasonable doubt. You explain your theory quite well and so far I haven't seen
you contadict yourself but you must see that there is no good reason to believe
your theory. Metaphor: It's like your theory is a table and you didn't make enough
legs to support it or the substance used for the table's legs is as weak as
cardboard.

My theories too can be described as weak but don't expect everyone to believe
them, only consider what I say as a small possibility. In KH2 DiZ explained how
Roxas's connection with Kairi was triggered when he came in contact with Namine.
I believe this justifies that Roxas had some sort of bond with Kairi and perhaps
Riku. Also in the opening of KH2 it shows Roxas appear from Sora, Kairi, Riku
linking hands which in my opinion symbolizes their connection. This theory of mine
has gone through a few changes thanks to some brilliant criticism so if you guys
believe anything disproves my theory then I will gladly take it into consideration.

[vanilla bear]

key of valor, why do you think roxas and riku have a connection? i can see the roxas/kairi one, but i'm not fully understanding riku's place

[Xuan]

You're a good guy, Key of Valor.
I could agree with that, no doubt.
We'll see it to the end.

[lionsbarrage]

While there is evidence to somewhat support that Roxas has a connection to Kairi and Rikue based of a Sora, and that in turn affect the keyblades he uses, it stll could coincide with how is also in tunr betwen light and dark.


Reguardless of that Roxas has a connection with Riku as well, that time he conected with Kairi proves that he could also have the same with RIku.

As far as the future goes, we know that Sora still has a journey, but that is al lwe know besides the letter king mickey gave, so u cant tel lthe future anymore then anyone else here can. SO to bend what the future for him holds just so it fits in with ur theory, while possible is uspporting by no evidence, whatso ever, so it is very hard for ur theory and opinion to be agreed upon.

[Xuan]

Nobody could predict the future. But we can get as close as we can. And I will get close to it. No matter what.

[vanilla bear]

um, lol? it's just a video game dude, you shouldn't take this so seriously, no matter what..

[Xuan]

It maybe just a video game... But everything it had presented was the dream of mine I didn't even dare to think since childhood...

[Key of Valor]

Xaun, there are two types of theories (that I can think of)
Interpretaion and Prediction.

You theory is really two theories linked together. These two theories use each
other to more justify your ideas. Since you combined the two it makes it hard
to believe alot but I seperated the parts into interpretation of prediction and am
glad to say that both theories stand on their own. Another one of my metaphors:
You have a pill you have to take but you don't want to take it because it's too
big which makes it hard to swallow. What do you do? Cut in half. Now you can
swallow the seperate portions at different times and still be able to get the full
dosage or if you think you only need to take one half then you can do that too.
The big pill was too much until it was made smaller and more simplier to consume.

Also by linking both theories you remove any room for a person's immagination
and beliefs to fit in. It's harder for individuals to believe.

Lastly I have only come up with one new comment about your theory and that is
that you're so strongly convinced that there is no explanation for Roxas to leave the
organaztion if not for the interference of Number 14 yet there are quite obviously
many different reasons why Roxas could have left and to say it must be because
of her makes it appear as though you have strong belief in a made up situation
and discredits your theory to a small extent. Her interference is a possible reason
for Roxas leaving the Organization but you don't need to say it's the only explanation.
Perhaps you too do not believe it to be the only possible explanation but the way
you present it in your theory makes it appear so. Your wording makes the whole thing
a little less believable.

[vanilla bear]

using a theory to justify another theory makes absolutely no sense and certainly won't gain much support

[Key of Valor]

He also uses facts and reason to support his theories and
what I'm saying is that there are two types of thinking in his
theory and is presented closely tied together. If a person
disagrees with one idea of his theory they might be convinced
to disregard the whole thing.

It's a possible theory.
Makes sense.
Easy to understand.
But unconvincible in
its presentation.

[lionsbarrage]

yeah and while there may be a possibility the 14 had an influence on Roxas descision, it may not be so or it maybe not be the only reason or main reason. Roxas fro mwhat we ve seen has constant dreams of Sora, and getting constant reminders of it, from other members, and since Sora is the only out of the org. to return to normal from a heartless, then it would make sense to go and find him, that what the orgs want as well their hearts. But it is much more difficult for them.

[Xuan]

That's one way of speaking it. If you mean the constant dreams Roxas have after being captured by Ansem the Wise, then it is because Ansem was trying to convert him into data and put him back into Sora, and that special link might caused those strange dreams.

But you're right. The 14th member might not have influenced Roxas in his desire to leave the Organization.

[Key of Valor]

Heres a though that just popped into my head.
I haven't heard much or seen any images of the
14th member but what if she's not really a nobody?

[vanilla bear]

actually i was thinking about something.. you guys are saying maybe a 14th member influenced roxas' decision to leave the organization... whenever this 14th member was, wasn't it before his time..?

[Key of Valor]

Well since she's called the 14th member I believe she came shortly
after Roxas joined and was an active member at one point when
Roxas too was an active member. For some reason though it appears
as though the organization did not consider her an actual member
which is why I think she wasn't a nobody.

[vanilla bear]

makes me still think it's aqua, but if it were in fact aqua, then she would have had to have been a member before roxas' time right? maybe not i guess...

[Key of Valor]

I think if it was Aqua her reason for joining the organization would be to be closer
to Roxas who mysteriously looks like her old companion, Ven. To me this makes
me think that whoever the 14th member is joined after Roxas. Besides, Nomura
doesn't call her the former 14th member or the new 13th member. She's number
14 which means at one time the organization consisted of 14 members at one
time. I think though that it was an unofficial membership since the organzation
remains called Organization XIII

[vanilla bear]

makes sense.. you and i seem to be on the same page about this

[Roxas[Nobody]]

I think if it was Aqua her reason for joining the organization would be to be closer
to Roxas who mysteriously looks like her old companion, Ven. To me this makes
me think that whoever the 14th member is joined after Roxas. Besides, Nomura
doesn't call her the former 14th member or the new 13th member. She's number
14 which means at one time the organization consisted of 14 members at one
time. I think though that it was an unofficial membership since the organzation
remains called Organization XIII

i never thought of tht

[Xuan]

I've thought about the 14th member not a Nobody quite some time ago. In fact, months before I make this thread. It is possible, very possible. I believe ten years ago, there had been powerful magic or an experiment done, which is used by this member to conceal her heart. I don't think Nobodies will accept a human, unless they did not realise that it was a human. If the 14th member is a betrayer, then it would explain Saix eagerness to kill the 'betrayer'.

[Key of Valor]

I haven't heard anything about a betrayer yet cause I'm not keeping up on
release info on the games. I think the Organization was always aware of
Number 14's traitorous intentions which is why her membership lacks the
full package.

[lionsbarrage]

well as far as dreams go i think since Sora was alive he had dreams even while in the org. not just after diz had him in TT, but its just a guess. as far the the 14 member well if u have read my theory then u know why i think it is Aqua, on behlaf of being closer to Ven and XEmnas as well since i think he is the nobody of her friend Terra in BBS, and thats who i think xemnas was talking to in the basement, when if u remember xigbar overheard xemnas tlaking to some new person. So the 14th was never known to the rest which is why it was not called org 14.

[Key of Valor]

Sorry but I haven't read your theory entirely because I'm
trying to avoid spoilers for KH2:FM+Re:CoM.

[lionsbarrage]

yes i know u were the one most interested but at the same time i knew u wouldnt read all cause it did contain spoilers, but i had to put them to back up my theory sry :(

[Key of Valor]

Thats okay. The little bit I was able to read was very good.
I'm sorry to say though I did read one spoiling fact about
where you fight the knight in KH2:FM+Re:CoM.

[lionsbarrage]

well, theres nothing really new in re com, nor did i really use anything from com, but as far as the fight well i think mostly everyone knew KH2Fm knew there was the fight with him, but if u didnt then sry.

[Xuan]

I haven't played KH2: Final Mix+ or Re:CoM yet. If I had played there might be more brainstorm, cause I've discovered that most cutscene in KH2 could contribute to the development of the new three games, if you guys didn't notice.

[lionsbarrage]

i didnt get a chance to play Kh2Fm till just a bit ago, however i did know all the new info it had when it first came out, same with re com but didnt have any new news. Which is why i could support my thoery more, except still theres alot of stuff unawnsered.

[Xuan]

There are many things unanswered, but just hidden beneath the soil. Dig it.

[lionsbarrage]

u cant dig deep to find the awnser when u have no leads. the only thing to do is wait.

[Key of Valor]

Xaun. What is Ven's relation to Sora again according to your theories?
Just to refresh my memory.

[vanilla bear]

yeah let's all get a refresher to everyone's thoughts.. sometimes these threads go for pages and pages and i forget where everyone stands.. as for me, i'm honestly clueless as to their connection.. i hope one of you does better than me

[Xuan]

Ven was created out of Sora's heart. Data. Like those in Roxas' Twilight Town, but far more realistic and powerful. Don't ask me why I kept on emphasising on this, I'm not even sure what am I thinking, but I think the names might have coaxed me into thiking it this way.

Sora(Sky), Ven(Wind). Wind is an element from the Sky. Er I'm lazy to talk about the other two. You know it.

[Key of Valor]

Interesting, I can somewhat accept that.
So far there isn't much proof to support
your theory but alone it is not entirely
unbelievable. I agree of it being a good
possibilty.

[vanilla bear]

but ven came long before sora.. if ven was created from data, so was sora

[Xuan]

Er, look into the thread of BBS: Ven and Roxas. I post my reply there to make things clear.

[Key of Valor]

Think of it this way. When we used to call Roxas BHK it was believed that he
existed during KH1 because he looked to be equal age of Sora but as it turns
out Roxas is a product of Sora. Ven looks like a product of Sora so could that
mean that Ven too is a product of Sora? I'm not exactly supporting this theory
but just merely suggesting that we should not let ourselves disregard this idea
just because of appearences and should consider the possibilities of this being
possible.

[Roxas[Nobody]]

Think of it this way. When we used to call Roxas BHK it was believed that he
existed during KH1 because he looked to be equal age of Sora but as it turns
out Roxas is a product of Sora. Ven looks like a product of Sora so could that
mean that Ven too is a product of Sora? I'm not exactly supporting this theory
but just merely suggesting that we should not let ourselves disregard this idea
just because of appearences and should consider the possibilities of this being
possible.

[Ven looks like a product of Sora so could that
mean that Ven too is a product of Sora?

What?

[Key of Valor]

Ven looks like Roxas and we know that Roxas came
from Sora so that mean that Ven also came from Sora.

It's a different way at looking at it. It's not a theory
but just a suggestion.

[Xuan]

Its a good one, but I wanted to hear more opinions.

[Key of Valor]

I think Ven's secret may lie in the ancient fairytale of Radient Garden.
If all who remained were children after such a massive effusion of darkness
then how were they able to conceal darkness away? Can the light of someone's
heart take a conscience form to fight against the darkness?

Random Random Random. I know less about released information than all
of you so all I can hope is guess when it comes to BBS. Sometimes random
ideas are good but not too often so don't be too harsh if I make unbelievable
suggestions. :D

[lionsbarrage]

well i dont think Ven can be data from Sora based on 2 things, 1 Ven is older than Sora in BBS, sora is only 4 while Ven is about 15 or so. Unlike Roxas and Sora before we knew much about roxas. 2nd, the data that was used to form another Tt was exactly the same, so it would have to be another Sora, to think how Sora and Ven are connected is a hint at how we can determine Ven and how he is different with ease.

[Xuan]

We all know Ven is older than Sora...

[Key of Valor]

Well if it wasn't released in an interview then it is only in an assumption.
Ven being older than Sora seems most logical but there's that tiny chance
(0.1 percent) that he and Sora are the same age.

... was it released in an interview?

[vanilla bear]

wait, wait, how can sora and ven be the same age?

[KH2 Mikoto]

wait, wait, how can sora and ven be the same age?

Like I said in a previous post in a different thread , Maybe a Nobody already exists in the heart.

but that is most/surely wrong. but doesnt hurt to make theories.

[vanilla bear]

well no of course not, i'm not one to shoot down theories unless they're posted by a certain member here.. i was just trying to understand where you came up with that

[lionsbarrage]

there is no chance Ven and Sora are same age, i mean its common sense, thats almost saying Terra or the old man is Soras age just cause it wasnt stated so.

[Xuan]

Correct. No one survives time. Not even them.

[queen garnet]

the conection between Ven and Roxas and Sora is really bothering me.We already know that the parent child conection is wrong because during BBS Sora is already 4 years old which also proves wrong some theories I read about Sora being Vens recarnesion and that being the reason why Roxas and Ven look like.I really do not know what to think myself.I am confused.I believe somehow Vens heart or soul maybe both ended up inside Sora and thats why Roxas and Ven look like.I hope that if things turn out that way Roxas will finally exist.I am not happy with him and Namine ending up inside Sora and Kairi. They deserve their own lives .

[lionsbarrage]

Its not like Roxas and Namine are gone, i mean they were never supposed to exist in the first place, but they didnt fade away, they became whole and thats what every nobody wants.

[queen garnet]

I know they did not fade and that they are whole but wouldnt it be great if they existed?if they were just Roxas and Namine?thats what I want.

[Xuan]

They do exist for a while, as Nobodies. Although they are "Not supposed to exist", they do. But what kind of existence is that? To live without a heart?

If you could think more deeply, you would realise that Roxas and Namine had always existed, exist in Sora and Kairi's heart. To exist as something you should exist as, is never terrible, but pleasure. The other way around is bad. Roxas and Namine will and always will exist in Sora and Kairi's heart, as what they should've been.

You do understand that nothing in this world is perfect, don't you? After all, Nomura decides that the storyline should go this way, and since it's his work, why don't we just go along? To me, I don't care what I am, be it living or non-living, as long as I wanted and I enjoyed my life. To them, Roxas and Namine, to live in Sora and Kairi's heart, and to be together forever, is their true desire. So, this ending fits better than anything. In fact, I believe that after the game Kingdom Hearts:358/2 Days is out, you would understand that this is better than what you like them to be.

[queen garnet]

you do have a point.I agree with you.But stil IF Nomura desides that he wants to
make them real beings it will be an action I will welcome.To bad I wont play
358/2! I dont have a DS!!Man and I really want to play it!Does anyone else believe that his connection with Ven is gona somehow affect Roxas?

[Kingdomhearts 3]

Nomura loves making our heads hurt. =]

@Xuan

you have a point, but Roxas and Namine didn't exactly exist as seperate beings before, until KH2. But they are both the shells(bodies) of Sora and Kairi so they are essentially the same person.

Even once they joined back with Sora and Kairi they retained their "new" personalties. Since they didn't get the memories of their "Host" they grew up different.

Its like Sora and Kairi if they grew up somewhere else. They would be different ppl, but once they joined each other, they became once again whole. so...yeah. Thats what Nobodies are. But i have no clue what your talking about in your third paragraph. Just remember......its all a video game. :)

[Xuan]

And you learn big things from seemingly insignificant things. I'm more of a thinker than worker, so naturally I think deep in everything I see, adding self-conscious lessons of the world and my heart into it.

[vanilla bear]

i have a question i don't think has been answered yet.. how long does it take for a nobody to be created after the person loses his/her heart?

[Key of Valor]

Well we haven't yet seen enought to make any
accurate assumption but if I had to guess I would
say no later than an hour.

[vanilla bear]

why an hour? i was just wondering this after thinking about the whole roxas/ven/sora thing and thought "why haven't we been told how long it takes for nobodies to come into being?".. and also, everyone who keeps saying that nobodies aren't meant to exist, who cares? they do exist and that's what matters

[lionsbarrage]

i would say right away, i mean we havent seen a nobody form so, we dont know but one would assume it be right away like a heartless is.

[Kingdomhearts 3]

And you learn big things from seemingly insignificant things. I'm more of a thinker than worker, so naturally I think deep in everything I see, adding self-conscious lessons of the world and my heart into it.

thats fine. so do i, but i dont always feel that way 24/7. but i understand completely.

[Xuan]

My guess is right away as well.

[Aequitas]

I like your theory. It's simple to understand if your not being closed minded.

[Kingdomhearts 3]

.....anyway

i think Roxas and Ven are connected through Sora obviously. If Sora's Nobody looks like Ven, Ven must be related to Sora somehow... no theories tho....cant be dad, too young...must be through the keyblade holder thing....like they all share something....meh...we'll find out anyway

[lionsbarrage]

the fact that they hold a keyblade or w/e means little especially since Terra was the one who picked up Sora's keyblade. In any case we really dont know much on if or how Sora and Ven are connected other than the fact their names mean similar elements.

[Xuan]

I think we know, we just didn't notice it... And I can't seem to remember where... gimme some time...

[lionsbarrage]

it was one of the first info released saying that when Ven and Roxas were connected, evidentally that leads to Ven having a connection with Sora as well.