Hmm... An interesting question.

[Chrono Mizaki]

You know, there's something that's been pointed countless times about 'Xion' being Kairi's dark nobody, but it cannot be true because a princess has no darkness inside them.

But when Kairi's heart was inside Sora, could her heart be influenced or tainted by Sora's heart, which is capable of producing darkness, even if it's small? I find that a possible theory, which could add towards 'Xion' being Kairi's nobody with the possible dark influences of Sora's heart...

until I remembered that if Kairi's heart was tainted by darkness, then I doubt the giant keyhole would unlock with the aid of the seven princess... because the seven princess, Kairi, has been tainted by darkness.

So that theory is thrown out of the window. Unless the darkness inside Sora was only used to create Kairi's nobody, but left her heart intact. Either of those theory might not be correct, but I think it does support the possibility of a 'dark side' nobody.

...either that or Nomura is unoriginal and there is no link between Kairi and Xion except their face...

or for a dark nobody, it has to be evil....

Now this is my random thoughts on a series I do not care about. Go me ;D

[Yellow Flash]

Interesting.....I like the seconded theory, although you could be correct about Noruma

[waitin4KH3]

You are correct about Nomura. I'm surprised you don't come right out and say that since we all know his originality ran out some time ago. I'm hoping they do something interesting, but I doubt it. It's far fetched, but you could also say that Sora spawned two nobodies (Roxas and Xion) and Xion looks like Kairi because her heart was in Sora's body when he released it.

[lionsbarrage]

Well the theories i get is about Xion almost being Kairis heartless which is even more fardetched and not possible for reasons, or another nobody made by Kairi. AS for ur theories, u already disproved it with what u already said.

Nomura is very original, as for this instance in characters looking alike it is for a reason even if it wasnt connected with the other person.

As for XIOn i dont think she comes from Kairi or Sora. TO be a nobody or even be influenced of how a persons heart is i dont think really matters, because Sora and Kairi have nothing to give to form XIon. Namine and Roxas cant even be completed by Sora and Kairi sicne Kairi couldnt not produce a body in which to form a nobody.

[RoxasorSora]

wait kairi had her heart taken so she was basically a body then sora gave it back along with the other princesess hearts would each heart create a nobody including a second kairi one?

[lionsbarrage]

no because like Kairi any nobodies the princesses would create would need composistion aka. a body.

[Chrono Mizaki]

Well the theories i get is about Xion almost being Kairis heartless which is even more fardetched and not possible for reasons, or another nobody made by Kairi. AS for ur theories, u already disproved it with what u already said.



Yeah, but then we have you to add on or disprove it ;D But yeah, I did add on the theorie, but I disproved them for the members to read because as you said in the later post, A nobody needs a composition, i.e a body. Since Sora and Kairi still retained theirs, the source had to come from somewhere else. Roxas has already been explained, and I still can't get my head around the Namine theory.

Xion... Well, nothing been revealed much about her, not to the extent as Ven anyway.


Nomura is very original, as for this instance in characters looking alike it is for a reason even if it wasnt connected with the other person.

...
...
...

HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=s1hiYPLYz9c&feature=related

Honestly, he isn't original. End of.

[~Souleater~]

You know, there's something that's been pointed countless times about 'Xion' being Kairi's dark nobody, but it cannot be true because a princess has no darkness inside them.

But when Kairi's heart was inside Sora, could her heart be influenced or tainted by Sora's heart, which is capable of producing darkness, even if it's small? I find that a possible theory, which could add towards 'Xion' being Kairi's nobody with the possible dark influences of Sora's heart...

until I remembered that if Kairi's heart was tainted by darkness, then I doubt the giant keyhole would unlock with the aid of the seven princess... because the seven princess, Kairi, has been tainted by darkness.

So that theory is thrown out of the window. Unless the darkness inside Sora was only used to create Kairi's nobody, but left her heart intact. Either of those theory might not be correct, but I think it does support the possibility of a 'dark side' nobody.

...either that or Nomura is unoriginal and there is no link between Kairi and Xion except their face...

or for a dark nobody, it has to be evil....

Now this is my random thoughts on a series I do not care about. Go me ;D


i feel that there is no connection beyond facial features. Kairi's nobody was/is Namine' and unless it is revealed in later KH games that Xion is related to Kairi in some way, she isnt.

[SufferingAngel]

Xion's possible relations to Kairi, way I see it now:

1) non-related. Here's to hoping. *bursts laughing*

2) her Nobody, created on the night of the storm when her Heart originally left her Body. Much like Namine, Xion is made up of nothing. Her relation to Sora would be established much like AtW originally theorized about Namine, that it was an eventual relation. Xion was born, Kairi's Heart was in contact with Sora's, and that's why in retrospective Xion was linked to Sora as well, hence the Keyblade and Memories issues.

3) Chance for Kairi's Heart to have came into contact with Sora's Darkness = when she purified him. Never forget that.
It also being the Darkness that was to eat away at his Memories ties in with Xion's supposed relation to Sora's Memories.

[Key of Valor]

I'm not so much a fan about the idea of a character being made of 'nothing'.
It just doesn't seem right to me for characters just to come from nowhere.

As for Xion not being Kairi related or Xion being created from Sora's
darkness, those are possible ideas. However, Xion does seem to
reference her similarities to Kairi in the story but it's possible for Xion
to be mistaken about her connection to Kairi. And while Xion being
made of Sora's darkness is possible, I don't see the reason for why
her to be born or how she was born. If she is made from darkness,
then the reason of why she possesses a normal human form may
need some explanation.

[SufferingAngel]

While I know you generally disagree with this, for better or worse, until we get substantial basis saying otherwise, Namine was repeatedly said to be in possession of neither a Body nor a Soul, while Roxas had Sora's, and Kairi kept her own. So it's not like we were never faced with a being that is made up of just about a sense of self. And seeing how Xion would come from the 'winning combo' of Sora being a Keyblade Wielder and Kairi being a PoH, she has as much chance of being born in that manner as Namine did - and Namine was born in such a manner.
Xion would actually have more logic in maintaining a human form, seeing how unlike Namine, she had the coat keeping the Darkness from interfering.

On a general note, you need to differentiate a character being made of 'nothing', and them coming from nowhere.
Namine lacking a Body and a soul doesn't change the fact she has an origin and two people involved in her creation, not just one, even.

[Edlynn_xD]

i thought that there was darkness in every heart, no matter how pure

doesnt Ansem say that in his reports?
O_o

[Key of Valor]

Well actually, it was never claimed anywhere that Roxas
possessed Sora's body and soul, though I do acknowledge
that scenario to be the most likely. (even though I still
think Namine has Sora's vessel instead of Roxas)

Indeed, Namine was claimed to be born of 'nothing' in Ansem's reports.
However, later in his reports, his last hypothesis might indicate a
change in mind, possibly claiming Namine to be composed of Sora's
body and soul. About the Ansem Reports in general though, Ansem
the Wise has been wrong before, so there is potential for error in
his reports and observations.

Namine however is not 'nothing', she is 'something'. She is a physical
being who seems to possess all the characteristics of having a vessel.
Her existence seems to be composed of 'something'. 'Somethings' are
composed of 'something', while 'nothings' are composed of nothing.

I assume by saying that 'Namine is composed of nothing' what is
really being said that her physical being came from nothing... which
is interchangeable for the word nowhere.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it isn't possible for something
to come from nothing, but if this were true it would introduce a
concept I would rather not theorize on. This concept being, that if
nothing can become something, then something should also be able
to become nothing. What this introduces is the means for anything
to be anything.

[Valamphias]

i thought that there was darkness in every heart, no matter how pure

doesnt Ansem say that in his reports?
O_o

The Princesses of Heart are the exception - the only one (or, well, seven) as far as I'm aware. Everybody else has that lovely darkness lurking somewhere within.

[lionsbarrage]

While I know you generally disagree with this, for better or worse, until we get substantial basis saying otherwise, Namine was repeatedly said to be in possession of neither a Body nor a Soul, while Roxas had Sora's, and Kairi kept her own. So it's not like we were never faced with a being that is made up of just about a sense of self. And seeing how Xion would come from the 'winning combo' of Sora being a Keyblade Wielder and Kairi being a PoH, she has as much chance of being born in that manner as Namine did - and Namine was born in such a manner.
Xion would actually have more logic in maintaining a human form, seeing how unlike Namine, she had the coat keeping the Darkness from interfering.

On a general note, you need to differentiate a character being made of 'nothing', and them coming from nowhere.
Namine lacking a Body and a soul doesn't change the fact she has an origin and two people involved in her creation, not just one, even.



I have to agree with what key of valor said. Roxas claiming to have Sora's body has actually never been confirmed, and Namine having no body is also something that isnt to clear. As key said it might have had to do wit hthe fact that Namine might have first been born as something( not a nobody) when Kairi first lost her heart, and when Sora lost his she then was able to exist as a nobody, suggesting a hypothesis that Sora's body may have been used for Namines composistion instead of Kairi's and Roxas's caem from somewhere else. Reguardless of which scenario would be true or not, it practically leaves Xion with nothing to build on from either of these 2 if we are to believe any of the rules of a nobody.



i thought that there was darkness in every heart, no matter how pure

doesnt Ansem say that in his reports?

To answer ur question this is true, except forthe 7 princesses of heart who have pure hearts. Other hearts cane be "purer" than other like Sora's but they all have darkness cept for these 7.

[SufferingAngel]

Namine is a freaking PoH's Nobody. It makes sense he'd spend the entirety of his reports trying to explain her, seeing how even amongst Nobodies, she specifically shouldn't have existed, what with being born from a Heart that never became a Heartless.

And c'mon. If AtW really had a problem theorizing that Namine was made of nothing, that doesn't make sense in light of 90% of his reports. The only real difference was that she took nothing out of Sora, instead of taking nothing out of Kairi, who couldn't give her anything to begin with.

It was stated bluntly and painfully numerous times that Roxas had Sora's B+S. Ya know, what with him being his Nobody.
Roxas is special because he lacks Sora's Memories, not his vessel.
Otherwise, ya know, I think they would've yes mentioned that fact about him. Seeing how it's important and all. And yet, they don't, simply continuing to call him Sora's Nobody.

[lionsbarrage]

Namine is a freaking PoH's Nobody. It makes sense he'd spend the entirety of his reports trying to explain her, seeing how even amongst Nobodies, she specifically shouldn't have existed, what with being born from a Heart that never became a Heartless.

And c'mon. If AtW really had a problem theorizing that Namine was made of nothing, that doesn't make sense in light of 90% of his reports. The only real difference was that she took nothing out of Sora, instead of taking nothing out of Kairi, who couldn't give her anything to begin with.

It was stated bluntly and painfully numerous times that Roxas had Sora's B+S. Ya know, what with him being his Nobody.
Roxas is special because he lacks Sora's Memories, not his vessel.
Otherwise, ya know, I think they would've yes mentioned that fact about him. Seeing how it's important and all. And yet, they don't, simply continuing to call him Sora's Nobody.


Al ot the things we tend to know usually holds exceptions meaning that the rules simply can be broken or or made exceptions. Alot think that Namine shouldnt be born, and that may be true but her existence brings forth many possibilities, some mentioned some not inside the game.

The reports are aslo somewhat quite interesting, what anyone takes as viable or not is up to the viewer, but evern Ansem acknowledged alot of his stuff was theorizing and wouldnt dare to profess the essence of the heart since its beyond his understanding.

It has been stated numerous times that Roxas is Sora nobody, and that in fact is true, but the composistions that make up nobodies may in turn differ. It hasnt been stated in or out of the game that the composistion used for Roxas came, or that his body came from Sora. It was a high assumption based on what we tend to know about nobodies and see, much like Nobodies having to look like their original selves or close to it, but that has never been confirmed, only based on a few examples. Which brings to the question of why do those nobodies if theyre composition caem from another belong to their orignal selves. This is unexplained but a good theory is that they have some type of essence or unknow factor that ties them to their orignal selves, perhaps something generated from the heart or something of imprint or soemthing.


All in all Namine and Roxas belong to Sora and Kairi, and the eplxantions for Namine existence and composisiton may have coem from Sora it may not, it if it did it would mean Roxas's composistion came from somewhere else (perhaps Ven?) theres plenty of theories about what could happen the one i mentioned was a hypothesis in game as well, so thats why people think about it, but we dont exactly know which is correct.

[khrules]

i dunno. Xion refers to Kairi as "the girl who resembles her" so...... yeah.... i dunno.....

[SufferingAngel]

All in all Namine and Roxas belong to Sora and Kairi, and the eplxantions for Namine existence and composisiton may have coem from Sora it may not, it if it did it would mean Roxas's composistion came from somewhere else (perhaps Ven?) theres plenty of theories about what could happen the one i mentioned was a hypothesis in game as well, so thats why people think about it, but we dont exactly know which is correct.

The thing is, Namine's "uniqueness" is in her lacking a composition. Roxas is unique in a different manner, and while it's "possible" as much as Riku being the eater bunny is, it was never hinted towards in the least.
Tying Ven into the mess is really quite ridiculous, in my opinion. Especially if you look at what you're trying to say about Namine. If she's Sora's B+S yet Kairi's Heart changed her to look like her instead of Sora (lawl gender bender), why is Ven's Body still an exact copy of himself instead of looking more like Sora? Kairi and Namine really did get only the hair color switched, when it comes down to it. Sora and Roxas share a lot more differences in appearances, so it doesn't add up in comparison.

I fail to see why you have to bring Ven into the mess though. He'd merit even more explanation than Namine being an existence made of nothing but a sense of self and some Darkness does.
Plus the entire "Kairi's sense of self overrid Sora's" and all that jazz. It doesn't add up, nor mentioned. It's a possibility, yes. But seeing how we've got the Secret Ansem Reports to go on, it's baseless.

[lionsbarrage]

The thing is, Namine's "uniqueness" is in her lacking a composition. Roxas is unique in a different manner, and while it's "possible" as much as Riku being the eater bunny is, it was never hinted towards in the least.
Tying Ven into the mess is really quite ridiculous, in my opinion. Especially if you look at what you're trying to say about Namine. If she's Sora's B+S yet Kairi's Heart changed her to look like her instead of Sora (lawl gender bender), why is Ven's Body still an exact copy of himself instead of looking more like Sora? Kairi and Namine really did get only the hair color switched, when it comes down to it. Sora and Roxas share a lot more differences in appearances, so it doesn't add up in comparison.

I fail to see why you have to bring Ven into the mess though. He'd merit even more explanation than Namine being an existence made of nothing but a sense of self and some Darkness does.
Plus the entire "Kairi's sense of self overrid Sora's" and all that jazz. It doesn't add up, nor mentioned. It's a possibility, yes. But seeing how we've got the Secret Ansem Reports to go on, it's baseless.


The reason Namine and Roxas being special can be viewed in many different ways or reasons as to why, but there isnt any confirmed reason at this time, perhaps for the sole reason Namine existed made her special, Theres also talks about Xemnas being a special nobody as well but thats another story. the whole theory on it not being hinted in the least is not true at all, it is very sound and as i stated its so much that even the game suggest this as a possibility, thats prolly where it started actually, and began to tka interest in peoples thoughts since his Ansem never did quite finish his hypothesis.

The reason Ven is perhaps brought into this is of course the very first because he looks identical to Roxas, and further confirmed by Nomura that there is a connection between the 2.
We dont know much about Ven or how he would fit but a theory is a theory unless it is contradicted or has facts that prove it wrong. Its a very sound scenario in my mind even though at first i wouldnt accept it as apossiblitity. U ask why Roxas would look LIke ven if his composistion was used while Namine would be totally different, well i cant say, maybe for the sheer fact of boy body used for a girl and boy body used for boy, some nobodies turn out to look grotesque creatures after all.


Namine as a nobody i feel has her composistion from somewhere or someone, even if it wasnt Sora she has a physical body that can age, which is proof enough for me.

[SufferingAngel]

The reason Namine and Roxas being special can be viewed in many different ways or reasons as to why, but there isnt any confirmed reason at this time, perhaps for the sole reason Namine existed made her special, Theres also talks about Xemnas being a special nobody as well but thats another story. the whole theory on it not being hinted in the least is not true at all, it is very sound and as i stated its so much that even the game suggest this as a possibility, thats prolly where it started actually, and began to tka interest in peoples thoughts since his Ansem never did quite finish his hypothesis.

Actually, I'm quite satisfied with the explanation given thus far. It ties in with what we've seen, while there being another B+S thrown into the mix with Sora's B+S being Namine ended up going to Kairi doesn't.
Theorizing Namine got Sora's B+S is adding more to this mess than just trying to explain what Namine is. You have how SHE got Sora's B+S while she originated from Kairi, how Ven's B+S got into the mix, and wtf went on with Sora since you guys like to say he also wasn't just a Heart.

The reason Ven is perhaps brought into this is of course the very first because he looks identical to Roxas, and further confirmed by Nomura that there is a connection between the 2.

Actually, Nomura never confirmed such a relation existed. He said that if if did, Sora would be affected as well.
You're also forgetting that when KH2 was released, Ven didn't even have a proper face (hence the armors in the secret ending), yet Namine's explanation didn't change from the first version of KH2 into the Final Mix, indicating that Ven being brought into the mixture as a Roxas lookalike changes nothing.

U ask why Roxas would look LIke ven if his composistion was used while Namine would be totally different, well i cant say, maybe for the sheer fact of boy body used for a girl and boy body used for boy, some nobodies turn out to look grotesque creatures after all.

Yeah, but then they don't look human at all. You don't end up a human shaped Nobody while looking 'that much' unlike your Somebody.

Namine as a nobody i feel has her composistion from somewhere or someone, even if it wasnt Sora she has a physical body that can age, which is proof enough for me.

And yet it's mostly thought that Nobodies don't age at all. And until you can prove to me that Kairi slapped a B+S on Sora, he was only a Heart until Roxas came back, and yet he aged nicely from CoM up to KH2. So there being a physical body means squat.
You're also forgetting that Riku's body, while being 15 years of age, became that of a man in his 20s, 30s tops when Xehanort's Heartless possessed him. Age is redundant when looking at the body. You can argue that it was because Kairi wasn't a Heartless so Namine aged along with her, but that only means that what Namine is made up from is redundant since it's not her composition that would make her age - it's Kairi.
That only means, however, that you can't use it as proof for her having a Body and Soul, seeing how that's not what got her to age.
Or do you want to tell me that just because they've the Body and Soul, Creepers and Dusks age as well?
Nobodies don't follow the 'proper' rules that human beings do, simply because despite them being the Body and Soul, they're not human beings.

The closest thing to what you're claiming I can believe in is that when Kairi purified Sora, Roxas still remained in 'existence' despite the B+S returning to Sora, but those are Sora's own.
That would leave Roxas as a "Namine-type" Nobody, being all but a floating sense of self.
I still greatly doubt this, though.

Oh and one last thing. If Roxas got Ven's B+S, and Namine got Sora's, I'd like to hear why you say that the both of them are blonde and blue eyed, seeing how Ven's the likely explanation for that in the both of them.
And no, coincidence isn't a legitimate answer, but then again I'd like to give you enough credit to think you already knew that.

Oh and of course one last example to show Sora could be just a Heart. Riku in the first final mix was shown to be on the other side of the Door to Darkness, still as 'Riku', while only a Heart. His Body and Soul were possessed by Xehanort's Heartless, leaving him with nothing but his Heart to him.

[Key of Valor]

Actually, I'm quite satisfied with the explanation given thus far. It ties in with what we've seen, while there being another B+S thrown into the mix with Sora's B+S being Namine ended up going to Kairi doesn't.
Theorizing Namine got Sora's B+S is adding more to this mess than just trying to explain what Namine is. You have how SHE got Sora's B+S while she originated from Kairi, how Ven's B+S got into the mix, and wtf went on with Sora since you guys like to say he also wasn't just a Heart.

My views on it is this:
Sora's vessel, having been attached to the hearts of
both Kairi and Sora, emerged as Kairi's Nobody with
power over Sora's memories. I also believe Ven's heart
was inside Sora, so when Sora stabbed himself with the
Dark Key, it released Ven's heart as well and this heart
had the power reconstruct a vessel of its own according
to the 'sense of self' (or Design as I often refer to it)
within the heart. Thus a being appears looking almost
exactly like Ven. Then I think Kairi's light allowed Sora's
to do something similar and also construct a new vessel
for himself.


And yet it's mostly thought that Nobodies don't age at all. And until you can prove to me that Kairi slapped a B+S on Sora, he was only a Heart until Roxas came back, and yet he aged nicely from CoM up to KH2. So there being a physical body means squat.
You're also forgetting that Riku's body, while being 15 years of age, became that of a man in his 20s, 30s tops when Xehanort's Heartless possessed him. Age is redundant when looking at the body. You can argue that it was because Kairi wasn't a Heartless so Namine aged along with her, but that only means that what Namine is made up from is redundant since it's not her composition that would make her age - it's Kairi.
That only means, however, that you can't use it as proof for her having a Body and Soul, seeing how that's not what got her to age.
Or do you want to tell me that just because they've the Body and Soul, Creepers and Dusks age as well?
Nobodies don't follow the 'proper' rules that human beings do, simply because despite them being the Body and Soul, they're not human beings.

Whether Nobodies age for not is questionable but their are
reasons to believe both arguments. For those who do believe
that Nobodies age because they possess the vessels, Namine's
growth helps to support the belief that she has a vessel. That's
not to say that this proves that she has a body and soul, because
we're not even sure if Nobodies age.

Here are my reasons though for believing that Nobodies age.
First off, by my perspective, Xehanort from 9 years before KH1
and Ansem SoD look very much the same (except for the muscles
and certain evil traits). I think it's possible for them both to be
set at the same physical age. Again, by my perspective, Xemnas
doesn't look so much like Xehanort from 9 years before KH1. There
seems to be some drastic changes between the two, and whether
these changes were always present or not is hard to determine.
Some Nobodies who take human form supposedly could look a little
different from their originals, thus that could explain the differences
between Xehanort and Xemnas. Still though, I think Xemnas might
have aged since the time he was born.

Then there is Zexion, who by my perspective, does not look younger
than Xehanort (but then again, I haven't played CoM R/R for the
PS2 yet). Despite Xehanort having the long white hair, I still don't
think Zexion looks younger than him.

Oh and one last thing. If Roxas got Ven's B+S, and Namine got Sora's, I'd like to hear why you say that the both of them are blonde and blue eyed, seeing how Ven's the likely explanation for that in the both of them.
And no, coincidence isn't a legitimate answer, but then again I'd like to give you enough credit to think you already knew that.

In my views, I have given this some thought. I personally explain
most of Namine's characteristics by saying how she might be
composed of Sora's vessel, a vessel with an Imprint from the
hearts of both Sora and Kairi. However, my beliefs also include
the idea that Ven's heart slept within Sora as well, so in my
opinion (though I neglect to often mention it) I think Namine
is composed of Sora's vessel with the Imprints of Sora, Kairi,
and Ven's hearts, since I believe all three hearts were attached
to that vessel. In its own little way, I do expect for the Imprints
of Sora and Ven to influence Namine (in a lesser extent than
Kairi's Imprint though). I think the Imprints of Sora and Ven
could even effect Namine on a physical level as well, thus
Ven's Imprint could be responsible for Namine's blond hair...

but again though, Ansem did say there are differences between
Nobodies and their originals, and for all we know, Namine's blond
hair could just be one of these coincidental differences (though
I personally believe in my reason for her hair color).

Oh and of course one last example to show Sora could be just a Heart. Riku in the first final mix was shown to be on the other side of the Door to Darkness, still as 'Riku', while only a Heart. His Body and Soul were possessed by Xehanort's Heartless, leaving him with nothing but his Heart to him.

To me, that's a bit different since it's a different realm and all.
I understand your reasoning though and can see how Riku's
case could help support your views, but I have different views
about Riku's case so it doesn't really affect my views.

[SufferingAngel]

Love how you ignored the main issue being that Namine was explained just as well without Ven being a plot element.
And for a person that hates some theories about Xion because you have a hard time accepting that things came from nowhere, you sure like to use that abundantly in your own theories. Double standard much?

Also, I'd very much like to hear your "different views" about Riku... no, wait a minute, I don't. Nomura said his Heart was on the other side of the Door to Darkness in an interview, and that's why his Body eventually followed.

Then again he also said that Riku handed the Soul Eater to Kairi and I know your views on that matter. Har.

[acdc1994]

but i thought kiaris nobody was namine'

[SufferingAngel]

but i thought kiaris nobody was namine'

The Nobody's 'ownership' is determined by the Heart that imprinted it, but that's mostly because the Body and Soul the Nobody is made up from belong to that Heart to begin with. Xehanort's Heartless being in control never really changed the fact it was Riku's Body and Soul >:\

[Key of Valor]

Love how you ignored the main issue being that Namine was explained just as well without Ven being a plot element.
And for a person that hates some theories about Xion because you have a hard time accepting that things came from nowhere, you sure like to use that abundantly in your own theories. Double standard much?

In my opinion, Namine and Roxas weren't explained
very well in KH2. If you believe they were, then that's
your opinion. A lot of things in KH2 were left without
explanation though, and I think it's fair to say that
things outside of KH2 will help explain them. As KH
has already shown numerous times, things we thought
we knew have turned out to be false.

As for my theories involving things coming from nowhere,
I suppose it's somewhat fair to make that claim. I think
my concepts differ from yours in a few important ways.
Firstly, I don't believe 'nothing' is element that can substitute
as composition. Secondly, I'm technically saying that
existence comes from the proof of existence and not from
'nowhere'. Thirdly, I'm naming a single process in which
existence could be created, the only process of the
creation of existence that has been observed in the series
thus far.

But no, I don't hate theories that involve Xion or anyone
being born from nothing. I don't hate theories. I have reasons
of why I don't support certain theories as my own beliefs.
I just have a different opinion on certain subjects. There is
no reason for me to hate the opinions of others.

Also, I'd very much like to hear your "different views" about Riku... no, wait a minute, I don't. Nomura said his Heart was on the other side of the Door to Darkness in an interview, and that's why his Body eventually followed.

Indeed, when Ansem SoD expelled Riku's heart from the vessel,
Riku as solely a heart ended up in the Realm of Darkness until
his vessel was returned to him. I didn't disagree with this.
I'm just saying that things might have been a little different
with Riku as solely a heart in the Realm of Darkness, rather
than if Riku was solely a heart in the Realm of Light.

Then again he also said that Riku handed the Soul Eater to Kairi and I know your views on that matter. Har.

You shouldn't automatically assume your interpretation is
correct. If you actually looked into the translation, then you
too would know that the structure of that sentence in Another
Report isn't necessarily referring to the Soul Eater. There's
no problem if you want to believe that it was referring to the
Soul Eater, but it's important to understand that it possibly
was referring to something else.

[SufferingAngel]

I've been speaking English since I was three years old.
That's 2 decades worth of having spoken the language.
Both KH3.net's translation as well as KHI's put the "it" in relation to the Soul Eater.
Until you bring a translation that instead of an 'it' puts 'the other Keyblade' as what Riku handed to Kairi, I suggest you review your sentence structures.
Plus, you know, the entire Novel issue of how he was the one that ended up summoning the Keyblade and all.

[lionsbarrage]

Actually, I'm quite satisfied with the explanation given thus far. It ties in with what we've seen, while there being another B+S thrown into the mix with Sora's B+S being Namine ended up going to Kairi doesn't.
Theorizing Namine got Sora's B+S is adding more to this mess than just trying to explain what Namine is. You have how SHE got Sora's B+S while she originated from Kairi, how Ven's B+S got into the mix, and wtf went on with Sora since you guys like to say he also wasn't just a Heart.


Its all based on the simple reason that nothign is simple in this game and not all thins are fully answered, even NOmura admitted this. This change from game to game, such as things we thought we knew were altered a bit yet still held onto making sense. Same goes for Namine and Roxas, we dont know the exact details to it, until info arises we theorize just that simple, course we have to go with things that make sense and the scenarios we give do. Does that make em true? no its just a possible idea thats what makes it fun for us to think about. Sora's body being used for Kairi while Roxas's coming from somewhere else does make sense and im sure can be explained better than we can, i just wont say thats how its gonna be because again anything can really happen. AS for Sora, well everyone has their own thoughts, ours is quite simple as for answer as for detials is vague, and it might not ever be explained, but of course id like to think he wasnt just a heart, that he gianed a new body somehow.




Actually, Nomura never confirmed such a relation existed. He said that if if did, Sora would be affected as well.
You're also forgetting that when KH2 was released, Ven didn't even have a proper face (hence the armors in the secret ending), yet Namine's explanation didn't change from the first version of KH2 into the Final Mix, indicating that Ven being brought into the mixture as a Roxas lookalike changes nothing.


Actually he did, it was one of the most anticipating interviews since the viwes on BBS, and once we gathered that Roxas did look exactly like Ven, Nomura did say that BBS would answer the questions as to how Roxas and VEn are connected, Sora may end up in that mix of it as well we just dont know much on that part. This has nothign to do with when VEn didnt have a face, this was after.


Yeah, but then they don't look human at all. You don't end up a human shaped Nobody while looking 'that much' unlike your Somebody.

Again its only assumption we made that was never followed up on BY Nomura, there was never a statement or hint that said that a human nobody has to look like or close to their original selves. We are only given 2 examples, 3 if u were to count Namine but thats kinda a screwy example, we cant conclude it follows with each one just yet.


And yet it's mostly thought that Nobodies don't age at all. And until you can prove to me that Kairi slapped a B+S on Sora, he was only a Heart until Roxas came back, and yet he aged nicely from CoM up to KH2. So there being a physical body means squat.
You're also forgetting that Riku's body, while being 15 years of age, became that of a man in his 20s, 30s tops when Xehanort's Heartless possessed him. Age is redundant when looking at the body. You can argue that it was because Kairi wasn't a Heartless so Namine aged along with her, but that only means that what Namine is made up from is redundant since it's not her composition that would make her age - it's Kairi.
That only means, however, that you can't use it as proof for her having a Body and Soul, seeing how that's not what got her to age.
Or do you want to tell me that just because they've the Body and Soul, Creepers and Dusks age as well?
Nobodies don't follow the 'proper' rules that human beings do, simply because despite them being the Body and Soul, they're not human beings


Mostly thought that nobodies dont age is nothign more than a person opinion much like those who think they can, i also think they can based on what i seen. As for Sora i can say alot of stuff as well about he has a physicila but and was not just a heart based on alot of things, does it make it a fact, no but neither does a statement that he was just a heart. a physicial body u can touch that can live that can grow is all the proof for me right there, if i wanted to add of someone just being a heart would be like Riku was holding back Xehanort when Kairi first got her heart back. I could say the same for nobodies as well that they age cause i can see differences, thats just my views and thoughts. BUt much like u say that nobodies dont follow proper rules of human beings the same can be stated like i said about them possibily not having souls.


The closest thing to what you're claiming I can believe in is that when Kairi purified Sora, Roxas still remained in 'existence' despite the B+S returning to Sora, but those are Sora's own.
That would leave Roxas as a "Namine-type" Nobody, being all but a floating sense of self.
I still greatly doubt this, though.


Well i dont think Sora's body exactly returned, though i dont see why not either, but for Roxa's sake if Soras body was used for Namine or returned Roxas still existed as a nobody, had a body nad maybe more, so if so hed still got his composistion form somewhere.



Oh and one last thing. If Roxas got Ven's B+S, and Namine got Sora's, I'd like to hear why you say that the both of them are blonde and blue eyed, seeing how Ven's the likely explanation for that in the both of them.
And no, coincidence isn't a legitimate answer, but then again I'd like to give you enough credit to think you already knew that.

Well for the same reason IF Sora 's body was indeed used for Roxas, his hair would be blonde, i dont think hair color plays so much a difference, much like IF XIOn was form Kairi and her hair is black. Even if nobodies look similar there are differences as Key said, and though i dont exactly agree with Keys views on that topic i do agree possible and likely, although my thinking is coincidental, or for some reaosn Ven's body was kept safe or preserved somehow in stead of just going to darkness to be remade into a nobody.



Oh and of course one last example to show Sora could be just a Heart. Riku in the first final mix was shown to be on the other side of the Door to Darkness, still as 'Riku', while only a Heart. His Body and Soul were possessed by Xehanort's Heartless, leaving him with nothing but his Heart to him.

As key said those are different realms, and like i said earlier while Xehanort was in host of Rikus body when he pushed out Rikus heart or /e is my evidence of existence of a heart when Riku was sheilding his friends, however at thepoint where we saw RIku at the door, Xehanort had already been defeated and RIku got his body back even if Xehanort still had a clutch on his heart.


Love how you ignored the main issue being that Namine was explained just as well without Ven being a plot element.
And for a person that hates some theories about Xion because you have a hard time accepting that things came from nowhere, you sure like to use that abundantly in your own theories. Double standard much?

Also, I'd very much like to hear your "different views" about Riku... no, wait a minute, I don't. Nomura said his Heart was on the other side of the Door to Darkness in an interview, and that's why his Body eventually followed.

Then again he also said that Riku handed the Soul Eater to Kairi and I know your views on that matter. Har.

Actually Namien wasnt full explained, not to a point where there was a solid explantion, we only have what Ansem could say and even he changed his thoughts or didnt have the full answer. Is that all there is to Namine, that could very well be, ur right that Ven doesnt have to be a plot element in it, we never said he had to be we are just given an eample and a logical scenario that could also be true. Xion being made of nothing is not what were flaming, but we have our own opinions and fi she follows any rules for being a nobody which is what she is claimed to be then of course it be kinda illogical for her to originate from Sora or Kairi without a good explantion, which there could be. For the soul eater i dont know where u get that but there isnt anything saying that to that effect. As key said theres alot of misinterpret or just plain interpeting something a different way, but even that aside he kept his hands on soul eater, just as much as to say that way to the dawn was created from soul eater by some way.


I've been speaking English since I was three years old.
That's 2 decades worth of having spoken the language.
Both KH3.net's translation as well as KHI's put the "it" in relation to the Soul Eater.
Until you bring a translation that instead of an 'it' puts 'the other Keyblade' as what Riku handed to Kairi, I suggest you review your sentence structures.
Plus, you know, the entire Novel issue of how he was the one that ended up summoning the Keyblade and all.

Im not gonna question about the language u speak, cause anyone of us can say the same, but i know more than anyone the difference of one word can make or even lack of words. Thats i why am able to make such claims as well aspossibilities based on SOme of Nomuras interviews. Common facts are that he didn't hand over soul eater not just by that interview but others that contradict it, even so some of the most sturcture sentence structures still can have different meanings , since after all its just an interview of aperons translated. Wether things u accept as true or false or un answered is up to u as it is with us, but dont derail Keys voice of opinion or words by saying he needs to review his sentence structures, i take that as an insult.

[SufferingAngel]

I find very little basis in theories that base themselves on sentence structures, especially ones that fail to present an alternative.
Saying "if you say the sentence like so-" is meaningless if he doesn't translate it properly in a way that will show clearly it supports his claims.
"Riku handed it to Kairi", while the sentence perviously spoke about the Soul Eater. Further more, there were several sentences between that and the last mentioning of the Gayblade.
By all means, present a translation that shows it really does mean what you want it to mean, instead of saying it could mean that. And by that I also mean have it be by someone that is accepted as a translator, like KHI's bittermeats.
Otherwise, you're insulting everyone you offer the theory to with something that could go as far as to go against Nomura's own words. And what's up with that, anyway, until you established that's what he meant, something that leans against you so far?

Bottom line I fail to see the need to tie Ven into the mess. I fail to see the need to explain Kairi having her own Keyblade, especially when it makes a lot more sense if it's Riku's (aside from Nomura saying it was, durr), especially with the implications it has on both Duel Wielding and Xehanort's relation to the Keyblade.

[DarkSoldier]

Its all based on the simple reason that nothign is simple in this game and not all thins are fully answered, even NOmura admitted this. This change from game to game, such as things we thought we knew were altered a bit yet still held onto making sense. Same goes for Namine and Roxas, we dont know the exact details to it, until info arises we theorize just that simple, course we have to go with things that make sense and the scenarios we give do. Does that make em true? no its just a possible idea thats what makes it fun for us to think about. Sora's body being used for Kairi while Roxas's coming from somewhere else does make sense and im sure can be explained better than we can.
Sora's body was used for Roxas but Namine came from Sora's vessel. That does not mean Namine took Sora's body and soul with her, now did it? None of the body structure even adds up, and neither do the facial details. It was Sora's body and soul that fell into the Realm of InBetween didn't it? Thus it would look like Sora because of his strong heart, and it came from his body and soul therefore his nobody would look similar to him, Roxas. It makes perfect sense that Namine doesn't have Sora's vessel or anything with her. Kairi's heart became 1 with Sora's vessel. Her heart was attached to Sora's vessel. Namine came from Kairi's heart, thus her resemblance towards her yet doesn't have the needs that a normal nobody has. She lacks a vessel. Roxas vs. Sora in an internal struggle because Roxas is half of what Sora is. Roxas has half of Sora's complete power, and its reasons why he wields the keyblade and so. There has been nothing indicating that Namine has Sora's body and soul. Yes, she is Sora's nobody more than Kairi's nobody because her heart was attached to Sora's vessel at the time he turned into a heartless. Without Sora, Namine never would have been born.
i just wont say thats how its gonna be because again anything can really happen. AS for Sora, well everyone has their own thoughts, ours is quite simple as for answer as for detials is vague, and it might not ever be explained, but of course id like to think he wasnt just a heart, that he gianed a new body somehow.
How would he get a new body? Everything should be explained by Nomura. This isn't 'magic' that would allow Sora to get his new body. And even so, how hard is it to believe Sora being a floating heart? He was a heartless at the time and Kairi 'purefied' the darkness from his heart meaning to take the darkness Sora had from his heart because she is a POH. Therefore since a heartless is a heart with darkness and Kairi removed the darkness from Sora, he was just a heart at the time with no body and soul. But because his heart was strong (like Xehanort) it seemed like a normal being. There has been 2 people already in the series that are 'floating hearts'.
Xehanort - before he took over Riku
Riku - in the Realm of Darkness. I'm sure SufferingAngel has mentioned this that in the Realm of Darkness Riku was there. His heart was kicked out of his own body thus Xehanort sent his heart to the Realm of Darkness and since Riku's heart was strong enough he seemed like a normal human now didn't he? He was a heart because his body and soul was lost to Xehanort. That was the scene where King Mickey speaks to Riku about trying to contact him from the beginning but it was because of the darkness it wouldn't allow him too. 2 people already have been 'floating hearts'. It's not very hard to see Sora as a heart as well. It makes perfect sense actually.
Actually he did, it was one of the most anticipating interviews since the viwes on BBS, and once we gathered that Roxas did look exactly like Ven, Nomura did say that BBS would answer the questions as to how Roxas and VEn are connected, Sora may end up in that mix of it as well we just dont know much on that part. This has nothign to do with when VEn didnt have a face, this was after.
Sora is the key connection....
Again its only assumption we made that was never followed up on BY Nomura, there was never a statement or hint that said that a human nobody has to look like or close to their original selves. We are only given 2 examples, 3 if u were to count Namine but thats kinda a screwy example, we cant conclude it follows with each one just yet.
Actually, human nobodies look more to their original selves. Why wouldn't they? They did came from their original somebody's body and soul therefore they would have the components of their original selves. There is no need to show us how Saix, Axel, and the rest looked like to prove this statement. It doesn't need to be proven because its most likely true....and even so personally for me, in BBS we'll see Ansem the Wise's apprentices and see how they probably resemble each other very well.
Xemnas - Xehanort...barely a difference
Roxas - Sora; not in our eyes but it means squat
Namine - Kairi; Namine came from Kairi's heart thus she would look like Kairi. She lacks the components of a nobody.
Well i dont think Sora's body exactly returned, though i dont see why not either, but for Roxa's sake if Soras body was used for Namine or returned Roxas still existed as a nobody, had a body nad maybe more, so if so hed still got his composistion form somewhere.
It wouldn't be that easy to explain. For one, why would the keep anticipating the fact that Roxas holds halfof what Sora is? Or the fact that it has been mentioned countless times in the game from Namine, Diz, Riku, etc that Roxas is Sora's nobody and is half of what he is and so.
Well for the same reason IF Sora 's body was indeed used for Roxas, his hair would be blonde, i dont think hair color plays so much a difference, much like IF XIOn was form Kairi and her hair is black. Even if nobodies look similar there are differences as Key said, and though i dont exactly agree with Keys views on that topic i do agree possible and likely, although my thinking is coincidental, or for some reaosn Ven's body was kept safe or preserved somehow in stead of just going to darkness to be remade into a nobody.
The resemblance towards Roxas looking like Sora from our eyes means absoutely nothing. Roxas and Sora look exactly like each other, whether you believe it or not. It's all based on our eyes. You can view it differently for all you want but Roxas and Sora look like each other...even though they don't, but they still do in the character's eyes so our eyes mean nothing in this particular point. It's the same with a Namine, and Kairi resemblance. Such as myself I believe they do look similar to each other but other people view them completely differently. It's all in our eyes..thats why they mean squat. We have to follow from the character's eyes.
As key said those are different realms, and like i said earlier while Xehanort was in host of Rikus body when he pushed out Rikus heart or /e is my evidence of existence of a heart when Riku was sheilding his friends, however at thepoint where we saw RIku at the door, Xehanort had already been defeated and RIku got his body back even if Xehanort still had a clutch on his heart.
Realms mean nothing. Explain how Xehanort was a floating heart then in the Realm of Light when he visit Destiny Islands. Destiny Islands was in the Realm of Light and Xehanort was a floating heart, was he not? Yes. It doesn't matter what realm your in. You can be a floating heart....it sounds weird but it still doesn't consider the fact that its not true.

[lionsbarrage]

Sora's body was used for Roxas but Namine came from Sora's vessel. That does not mean Namine took Sora's body and soul with her, now did it? None of the body structure even adds up, and neither do the facial details. It was Sora's body and soul that fell into the Realm of InBetween didn't it? Thus it would look like Sora because of his strong heart, and it came from his body and soul therefore his nobody would look similar to him, Roxas. It makes perfect sense that Namine doesn't have Sora's vessel or anything with her. Kairi's heart became 1 with Sora's vessel. Her heart was attached to Sora's vessel. Namine came from Kairi's heart, thus her resemblance towards her yet doesn't have the needs that a normal nobody has. She lacks a vessel. Roxas vs. Sora in an internal struggle because Roxas is half of what Sora is. Roxas has half of Sora's complete power, and its reasons why he wields the keyblade and so. There has been nothing indicating that Namine has Sora's body and soul. Yes, she is Sora's nobody more than Kairi's nobody because her heart was attached to Sora's vessel at the time he turned into a heartless. Without Sora, Namine never would have been born.

Weve been back and forth on this for some time, ur gonna say the same thing, and so do I. As for the simple thing that nowhere does it say nobodies have to look close to their orignal selves, as shocking as it is even for me, it has never realyl been discussed or rbrought up, so for me the look alike aspect doesnt play a major part. BUt the part of Naimne being Kairi's nobody not Soras has been mentioned and more or less confirmed, prolly not so much by NOmura but what we have at least seen and heard Ansem say even though again some things he isnt fully right about, she may owe her existence as anobody to Sora, which is left to be determined but she is not Sora's nobody, Roxas is reguardless if he had Soras old body or not.



How would he get a new body? Everything should be explained by Nomura. This isn't 'magic' that would allow Sora to get his new body. And even so, how hard is it to believe Sora being a floating heart? He was a heartless at the time and Kairi 'purefied' the darkness from his heart meaning to take the darkness Sora had from his heart because she is a POH. Therefore since a heartless is a heart with darkness and Kairi removed the darkness from Sora, he was just a heart at the time with no body and soul. But because his heart was strong (like Xehanort) it seemed like a normal being. There has been 2 people already in the series that are 'floating hearts'.
Xehanort - before he took over Riku
Riku - in the Realm of Darkness. I'm sure SufferingAngel has mentioned this that in the Realm of Darkness Riku was there. His heart was kicked out of his own body thus Xehanort sent his heart to the Realm of Darkness and since Riku's heart was strong enough he seemed like a normal human now didn't he? He was a heart because his body and soul was lost to Xehanort. That was the scene where King Mickey speaks to Riku about trying to contact him from the beginning but it was because of the darkness it wouldn't allow him too. 2 people already have been 'floating hearts'. It's not very hard to see Sora as a heart as well. It makes perfect sense actually.
Actually he did, it was one of the most anticipating interviews since the


For the same reason just being a floating heart makes sense to u, that doesnt make it true or facts, neither does mine but thats how i see my views on it right or wrong cant be proven which mean possibility and does make sense just as much as urs would as i admit. Not everything has to have an answer or is going to, or has one at this time, The heart for one cant be purified of darkness to a full extent, but being just a heart isnt as simple as that, because the keyblade does almost the exact same, releases the hearts when slaying heartless, However since hes old body was used for a nobody, he has to gain a new one, i dont see him as just a heart since his vessel was exactly the same in every way from what we can tell, any existence of a heart as i said for my view is only how Riku appeared when holding back Xehanort,and again as for as him on the other side of the door i wouldnt say so either, because by then Xehanort had been defeated which woulda allowed Riku to reclaim his body. So so far the only example for me idf any of exitence of a heart is that short thign with Riku.



Sora is the key connection....

Maybe, maybe no. He doesnt have to be.

Actually, human nobodies look more to their original selves. Why wouldn't they? They did came from their original somebody's body and soul therefore they would have the components of their original selves. There is no need to show us how Saix, Axel, and the rest looked like to prove this statement. It doesn't need to be proven because its most likely true....and even so personally for me, in BBS we'll see Ansem the Wise's apprentices and see how they probably resemble each other very well.
Xemnas - Xehanort...barely a difference
Roxas - Sora; not in our eyes but it means squat
Namine - Kairi; Namine came from Kairi's heart thus she would look like Kairi. She lacks the components of a nobody.


Who knows if we get to see nay of the apprentices, but its possible. BUt again they dont have look like their original selves, 2 examples isnt enough for me, in Rl maybe but in game where theres almost always an exception to every rule, esepcially o nthe fact that some nobodies look like monster yet that body came form a human, nobodies can look human than but doesnt mean they look similar to their orignal selves. It may be true but right now its not exactly proven.



It wouldn't be that easy to explain. For one, why would the keep anticipating the fact that Roxas holds halfof what Sora is? Or the fact that it has been mentioned countless times in the game from Namine, Diz, Riku, etc that Roxas is Sora's nobody and is half of what he is and so.


Holding half means anything, its such a vague concept. And it coulda been brought on by Sora losing and trying to regain memories, otherwise i wouldnt see any reason he would need Roxas from when Sora first came back from a heartless up till CoM.



The resemblance towards Roxas looking like Sora from our eyes means absoutely nothing. Roxas and Sora look exactly like each other, whether you believe it or not. It's all based on our eyes. You can view it differently for all you want but Roxas and Sora look like each other...even though they don't, but they still do in the character's eyes so our eyes mean nothing in this particular point. It's the same with a Namine, and Kairi resemblance. Such as myself I believe they do look similar to each other but other people view them completely differently. It's all in our eyes..thats why they mean squat. We have to follow from the character's eyes.

Again u keep bringing this thing up when im the first to have mentioned that fact, but again as i think and look it over its only based on a few of the org. members. How they view things or sense thigns maybe entirely different. Merly giving of the same vibemay be enough to fool a person, even when someone like Saix knew he didnt care how to acknowlede Sora by. While everyone else never mentioned any hint or anything of the sort about Sora looking like Roxas ro get the 2 mixed up.



Realms mean nothing. Explain how Xehanort was a floating heart then in the Realm of Light when he visit Destiny Islands. Destiny Islands was in the Realm of Light and Xehanort was a floating heart, was he not? Yes. It doesn't matter what realm your in. You can be a floating heart....it sounds weird but it still doesn't consider the fact that its not true.

For one again i dont think Xehanort was a flaoting heart to begin with, and realms do mean alot, especially if heartless did exist yet only in one realm at one point, simple things like that, what is meant is that things might have been affected differently For him where his heart resided.




I find very little basis in theories that base themselves on sentence structures, especially ones that fail to present an alternative.
Saying "if you say the sentence like so-" is meaningless if he doesn't translate it properly in a way that will show clearly it supports his claims.
"Riku handed it to Kairi", while the sentence perviously spoke about the Soul Eater. Further more, there were several sentences between that and the last mentioning of the Gayblade.
By all means, present a translation that shows it really does mean what you want it to mean, instead of saying it could mean that. And by that I also mean have it be by someone that is accepted as a translator, like KHI's bittermeats.
Otherwise, you're insulting everyone you offer the theory to with something that could go as far as to go against Nomura's own words. And what's up with that, anyway, until you established that's what he meant, something that leans against you so far?

I bet everyone whishes it was that simple, but we have to realize its not. It may even been better if it was interview and NOmura spoke english or it was his native tongue, but even than and especially with NOmura he likes to throw distraction or lead us away with his words cause he doesnt want to spoil anything, which is understandable. and were not perfect, translations sometimes can have faults, not saying there is but its possible, and even after that things can change, and we wouldnt know about it or to every detail.
Bottom line I fail to see the need to tie Ven into the mess. I fail to see the need to explain Kairi having her own Keyblade, especially when it makes a lot more sense if it's Riku's (aside from Nomura saying it was, durr), especially with the implications it has on both Duel Wielding and Xehanort's relation to the Keyblade. [/QUOTE]

[Key of Valor]

I find very little basis in theories that base themselves on sentence structures, especially ones that fail to present an alternative.
Saying "if you say the sentence like so-" is meaningless if he doesn't translate it properly in a way that will show clearly it supports his claims.
"Riku handed it to Kairi", while the sentence perviously spoke about the Soul Eater. Further more, there were several sentences between that and the last mentioning of the Gayblade.
By all means, present a translation that shows it really does mean what you want it to mean, instead of saying it could mean that. And by that I also mean have it be by someone that is accepted as a translator, like KHI's bittermeats.
Otherwise, you're insulting everyone you offer the theory to with something that could go as far as to go against Nomura's own words. And what's up with that, anyway, until you established that's what he meant, something that leans against you so far?

VI - Could you please give an explanation for the new keyblade "Way to the Dawn" that Riku obtained and the keyblade Kairi has as well as what the conditions for using a keyblade are?

There isn't necessarily one keyblade for the dark side and one for the light side, just as many as there exist people with qualified hearts. Concerning the conditions to wield one, at this stage, "Those with strong hearts" is the only obvious one. However, less obvious conditions still exist and there are still plans for an opportunity to reveal those. Riku's "Way to the Dawn" and Kairi's keyblade are naturally the same type of keyblade as Sora's. However there is no particular explanation for the Soul Eater's transfer and occurence, as well as Riku's handing it to Kairi. When there isn't a normal process of acquisition, I think its ok to think there is some deeper meaning there.

I certainly understand where you are coming from.
By English Grammar, the translation does indeed seem
to imply that the 'it' refers to the Soul Eater.

I'm not saying though that any part of that segment
is mistranslated. I'm also not solely basing my claim
of Nomura possibly referring to *flowerpower off:
he said 'it' and 'it' could refer to anything

I've picked up a few things because of my own experience
with foreign languages. One thing I've seen in a few languages
is how...

One sentence refers two subjects, and then the following
sentence is a compound sentence that (less specifically than
the preceding sentence) refers to the first subject and then
refers to the second subject.

That is what I believe is being applied in the two sentences below:
Riku's "Way to the Dawn" and Kairi's keyblade are naturally the same type of keyblade as Sora's. However there is no particular explanation for the Soul Eater's transfer and occurence, as well as Riku's handing it to Kairi.

I've spoken to someone who has studied several languages,
and she concurs that such structure in translated text does
occasionally appear. However, among the languages she has
studied, Japanese isn't one of them. I have a friend who is
currently studying Japanese, and he too concurs with the
possibility of my claim, but my friend's knowledge on the
language is still very limited.

I don't know how I would go about to find a source
online that supports the existence of such sentence
structure in the Japanese language. Honestly, I won't
even bother trying to look for such a source.

If ever an opportunity presented itself, I would recommend
you ask a professional on the language about such sentence
structure to see what their educated input is.

Sora's body was used for Roxas but Namine came from Sora's vessel. That does not mean Namine took Sora's body and soul with her, now did it? None of the body structure even adds up, and neither do the facial details. It was Sora's body and soul that fell into the Realm of InBetween didn't it? Thus it would look like Sora because of his strong heart, and it came from his body and soul therefore his nobody would look similar to him, Roxas. It makes perfect sense that Namine doesn't have Sora's vessel or anything with her.

We've gone over this already many times before.

First off, you can't know if Roxas has Sora's vessel.
How could you know this? It was never claimed by
anyone in the series that Roxas had Sora's vessel.
It's possible that Roxas' composition is something else.

Again, if Namine does have Sora's vessel, then the
vessel could have changed form due to the influence
of Kairi's Imprint on Sora's vessel.

Kairi's heart became 1 with Sora's vessel. Her heart was attached to Sora's vessel. Namine came from Kairi's heart, thus her resemblance towards her yet doesn't have the needs that a normal nobody has. She lacks a vessel. Roxas vs. Sora in an internal struggle because Roxas is half of what Sora is. Roxas has half of Sora's complete power, and its reasons why he wields the keyblade and so. There has been nothing indicating that Namine has Sora's body and soul. Yes, she is Sora's nobody more than Kairi's nobody because her heart was attached to Sora's vessel at the time he turned into a heartless. Without Sora, Namine never would have been born.

Roxas is indeed part of Sora and held a part of Sora's
complete power, but that doesn't necessarily mean that
Roxas possessed Sora's vessel, even though it seems to
be the case. Namine may or may not be composed of a
vessel, but if she isn't composed of a genuine vessel,
she would at least need to be composed of something
that allows her possess a physical form.

How would he get a new body? Everything should be explained by Nomura. This isn't 'magic' that would allow Sora to get his new body. And even so, how hard is it to believe Sora being a floating heart? He was a heartless at the time and Kairi 'purefied' the darkness from his heart meaning to take the darkness Sora had from his heart because she is a POH. Therefore since a heartless is a heart with darkness and Kairi removed the darkness from Sora, he was just a heart at the time with no body and soul. But because his heart was strong (like Xehanort) it seemed like a normal being.

It's possible that Sora was a being of the heart but I
personally believe he just obtained a new vessel. There
are reasons to believe Sora was just a heart, as well as
there are reasons to believe that he just wasn't a heart.

There has been 2 people already in the series that are 'floating hearts'.
Xehanort - before he took over Riku
Riku - in the Realm of Darkness. I'm sure SufferingAngel has mentioned this that in the Realm of Darkness Riku was there. His heart was kicked out of his own body thus Xehanort sent his heart to the Realm of Darkness and since Riku's heart was strong enough he seemed like a normal human now didn't he? He was a heart because his body and soul was lost to Xehanort. That was the scene where King Mickey speaks to Riku about trying to contact him from the beginning but it was because of the darkness it wouldn't allow him too. 2 people already have been 'floating hearts'. It's not very hard to see Sora as a heart as well. It makes perfect sense actually.

The thing with Xehanort's case is how it appears that he
needed Riku's vessel to possess a physical form. If Xehanort,
who studied the heart and the Heartless, didn't possess the
means to hold a physical form as just a heart, then I personally
have doubts that Sora would have better luck. Then there is
Riku's case, and the fact that it occurs in the Realm of Darkness
could make all the difference. That scene where Mickey speaks
to him, Riku location and appearence do not look normal. Firstly,
he is struggling to maintain his sense of self and resist disappearing.
Secondly, Riku is glowing light blue at times, which is how Xehanort's
Heartless glowed right before he possessed Riku's vessel. Thirdly,
the camera in that scene in spinning upside down and what'not,
which might indicate it not truly being a physical place.

There is no problem believing that Riku was a physical
being of the heart, but my point is that there are reasons
to believe another scenario. It's possible that Riku wasn't
a physical being of the heart.

Actually, human nobodies look more to their original selves. Why wouldn't they? They did came from their original somebody's body and soul therefore they would have the components of their original selves. There is no need to show us how Saix, Axel, and the rest looked like to prove this statement. It doesn't need to be proven because its most likely true....and even so personally for me, in BBS we'll see Ansem the Wise's apprentices and see how they probably resemble each other very well.
Xemnas - Xehanort...barely a difference
Roxas - Sora; not in our eyes but it means squat
Namine - Kairi; Namine came from Kairi's heart thus she would look like Kairi. She lacks the components of a nobody.

The thing is though, there are plenty of Nobodies composed
of the vessels of their original selves, yet only fourteen seem
to have retained their form enoguh to stay in human form.
Therefore, it's not issue that they look the same just because
they're composed of the vessel from their original selves. It
seems to be that whole 'exceptionally strongly hearts produce
Nobodies closer to the original form' thing. It might very well
be influence of the heart on the vessel that determines a
Nobody's shape. (and by heart, that includes the range of
things like sense of self and memories)

It wouldn't be that easy to explain. For one, why would the keep anticipating the fact that Roxas holds halfof what Sora is? Or the fact that it has been mentioned countless times in the game from Namine, Diz, Riku, etc that Roxas is Sora's nobody and is half of what he is and so.

It's true that Roxas is Sora's Nobody, but perhaps not
necessarily by the strictest terms. KH seems pretty lenient
on categorizing characters. Ansem SoD is a Heartless yet
is unlike most all other Heartless in many ways such as retaining
sense of self and not having a physical form. Namine is seemingly
Kairi's Nobody yet she is not composed of Kairi's left over vessel.
If Kairi's Nobody is not composed of Kairi's vessel, then perhaps
Sora's Nobody doesn't need to be composed of Sora's vessel
either.

Again though, whatever part Roxas has from Sora doesn't
necessarily need to be Sora's vessel. Sora was said to be
incomplete, but in what sense he was incomplete was never
specified.

The resemblance towards Roxas looking like Sora from our eyes means absoutely nothing. Roxas and Sora look exactly like each other, whether you believe it or not. It's all based on our eyes. You can view it differently for all you want but Roxas and Sora look like each other...even though they don't, but they still do in the character's eyes so our eyes mean nothing in this particular point. It's the same with a Namine, and Kairi resemblance. Such as myself I believe they do look similar to each other but other people view them completely differently. It's all in our eyes..thats why they mean squat. We have to follow from the character's eyes.

The thing is though, only the people who were aware that
Roxas and Sora possessed a connection claimed a resemblance
between the two. If I recall, Sora, Donald, Goofy, Hayner, Pence,
and Olette never addressed there being a resemblance, even though
they all saw the photograph with Roxas in it. Plus, Sora never even
addresses a resemblance even after his battle with Roxas. The
people aware of Sora's connection with Roxas might have not been
looking at the two objectively. When they looked at Roxas, they
saw what their minds expected them to see, a part of Sora.
It's not just our perspectives that could be dismissed, but the
perspectives of the characters in the game as well, especially
if their views are influence by certain awareness of the subject.

Now don't get me wrong, I think Ven and Sora are similar in
many ways. I believe Nomura already stated that Ven acts
similarly as Sora does while he travels the worlds and interacts
with its inhabitants. However, I personally don't believe that
Ven's personality would influence Sora's, nor do I think that
Sora's personality would influence Ven's. In my views, their
similarity in the way they act could just simply be coincidental,
an act of fate. I think it's possible for some of Ven and Sora's
similarities to just be plain coincidental.

Realms mean nothing. Explain how Xehanort was a floating heart then in the Realm of Light when he visit Destiny Islands. Destiny Islands was in the Realm of Light and Xehanort was a floating heart, was he not? Yes. It doesn't matter what realm your in. You can be a floating heart....it sounds weird but it still doesn't consider the fact that its not true.

I personally believe it is possible to exist as solely a heart
without a physical form in the Realm of Light, but suspect
things might work differently when looking at Riku's case in
the Realm of Darkness.

[DarkSoldier]

Weve been back and forth on this for some time, ur gonna say the same thing, and so do I. As for the simple thing that nowhere does it say nobodies have to look close to their orignal selves, as shocking as it is even for me, it has never realyl been discussed or rbrought up, so for me the look alike aspect doesnt play a major part. BUt the part of Naimne being Kairi's nobody not Soras has been mentioned and more or less confirmed, prolly not so much by NOmura but what we have at least seen and heard Ansem say even though again some things he isnt fully right about, she may owe her existence as anobody to Sora, which is left to be determined but she is not Sora's nobody, Roxas is reguardless if he had Soras old body or not.
Again it doesn't need to be confirmed that nobodies look like their original selves. They most likely do. Again have you not read what I wrote of why they do look like their original selves? The human nobodies look like their original selves because of their strong hearts...as well as the nobodies coming from their somebody's body and soul so it would have the same type of body structure as their somebody was. A dusk is completely different. We aren't discussing about those kind of nobodies. We are talking about Organization XIII and Namine. Xemnas looks like Xehanort, as well as Sora - Roxas, and there's Kairi- Namine. There doesn't need to be any more evidence to confirm this. Also, no...we've gone over this. Namine is more of Sora's nobody than Kairi. This is why I confirm Namine to be Sora's nobody because Kairi's heart was attached to Sora's vessel at the time he turned into a heartless. In other words Namine would never have been created without Sora thus Sora is responsible for Namine, and he takes most of the credit. Also that means nothing if Namine is Sora's nobody anyway because it does not mean she took his body and soul with her. Roxas is the most likely concept. This is why Namine is special...special in her own way; special because she lacks the needs of a nobody. She is in a different category of 'special nobodies' than Roxas.
For the same reason just being a floating heart makes sense to u, that doesnt make it true or facts, neither does mine but thats how i see my views on it right or wrong cant be proven which mean possibility and does make sense just as much as urs would as i admit.
Even though its been said countless times that Xehanort was an existence of a heart yet you do still do not agree with that concept. Are you against Nomura's words as well?
The heart for one cant be purified of darkness to a full extent, but being just a heart isnt as simple as that, because the keyblade does almost the exact same, releases the hearts when slaying heartless.
....heartless are purifed of darkness.
However since hes old body was used for a nobody, he has to gain a new one.
That makes absoutely no sense at all.
i dont see him as just a heart since his vessel was exactly the same in every way from what we can tell, any existence of a heart as i said for my view is only how Riku appeared when holding back Xehanort.
....Xehanort was lacking a body. He said it himself. He lacked a body. He lost his body because it created Xemnas thus this is why you see him as a phantom ghost like creature. He was still an existence of a heart though. Xehanort never had a vessel at all after he was created to a heartless. That's what heartless are anyway. Heartless are the hearts, while the nobodies take the body and soul. Also, Xehanort used Riku's vessel. He never had his own vessel after he turned into a heartless.
Riku had his heart body and soul
Xehanort was a heart, lacking a body and soul
Xehanort took over Riku's vessel by kicking Riku's heart and sending it into the Realm of Darkness thus because of Xehanort's strong heart changed his appearence using Riku's vessel but from Xehanort's heart so therefore, no...Xehanort never got a new body before he took over Riku. What do you think Xehanort's goal was? To get a new body and thus that is when he got Riku to take over him, etc. It makes absoutely no sense that Xehanort would just get a brand new body from magic out of nowhere after when he was turned into a heartless. It's different with Sora because Kairi purefied the darkness from him.
and again as for as him on the other side of the door i wouldnt say so either, because by then Xehanort had been defeated which woulda allowed Riku to reclaim his body. So so far the only example for me idf any of exitence of a heart is that short thign with Riku.
For goodness sakes Xehanort was a heartless lacking a body and soul. What do you think his main goal was? He had to find a body thus he got Riku.
Maybe, maybe no. He doesnt have to be.
Yes he does....Roxas came from Sora thus making Roxas has an appearence of Ven/Sora. Sora is the key connection because he has something of Ven inside him somehow. Without Sora there's no connection at all because then Roxas would not have been born, etc.
Holding half means anything, its such a vague concept. And it coulda been brought on by Sora losing and trying to regain memories, otherwise i wouldnt see any reason he would need Roxas from when Sora first came back from a heartless up till CoM.
.....
gain u keep bringing this thing up when im the first to have mentioned that fact, but again as i think and look it over its only based on a few of the org. members. How they view things or sense thigns maybe entirely different. Merly giving of the same vibemay be enough to fool a person, even when someone like Saix knew he didnt care how to acknowlede Sora by. While everyone else never mentioned any hint or anything of the sort about Sora looking like Roxas ro get the 2 mixed up.
No.
For one again i dont think Xehanort was a flaoting heart to begin with, and realms do mean alot, especially if heartless did exist yet only in one realm at one point, simple things like that, what is meant is that things might have been affected differently For him where his heart resided.
For goodness sake its been confirmed in the reports...has been said by Nomura, etc that Xehanort did not have a body nor soul when he was a heartless. You really don't agree to any of my statements don't you? Even though Xehanort being a heart before taking over Riku is 100% true and I'm not just saying that on my words either.

[Key of Valor]

The human nobodies look like their original selves because of their strong hearts...as well as the nobodies coming from their somebody's body and soul so it would have the same type of body structure as their somebody was.

But you see, here's essentially what you're saying.
You're saying that the difference between the transformation
of a Dusk Nobody and a Human Nobody is that the original
self of the Human Nobody has an exceptionally strong heart
while the original self of the Dusk Nobody has a weaker heart.

Basically, the heart is the key influence of whether a Nobody
will end up in an inhuman or human form, not the shape of the
vessel itself.

Both inhuman and human Nobodies are composed of the vessels
of their original selves, yet not all of them look like their original
selves. It's the heart and elements related to the heart that
determine whether a Nobody will retain human form or not.
This being the case, then perhaps the heart and its elements
have complete influence over the shape of a Nobody, regardless
of the shape of the original vessel the Nobody is composed of.

A dusk is completely different. We aren't discussing about those kind of nobodies.

Again though, they're composed of the vessels of their
original selves and yet appear to retain no likeness of them.
They are related to the topic, and are essential for the
comparison between Nobodies that keep original forms,
those that don't, and the reasons for their differences.

We are talking about Organization XIII and Namine. Xemnas looks like Xehanort, as well as Sora - Roxas, and there's Kairi- Namine. There doesn't need to be any more evidence to confirm this.

To be fair, those are said to be 'special nobodies'. Plus
the composition and existences of Roxas and Namine are
still in question, thus not exactly the best examples for
a conclusive answer.

Namine is more of Sora's nobody than Kairi. This is why I confirm Namine to be Sora's nobody because Kairi's heart was attached to Sora's vessel at the time he turned into a heartless. In other words Namine would never have been created without Sora thus Sora is responsible for Namine, and he takes most of the credit.

I wouldn't necessarily consider Sora as taking the most credit...
because Kairi was essential for Namine's creation too. But yes,
as it has been confirmed, Namine owes her existence in part to
Sora. However, I personally consider Namine as Kairi's Nobody.
It may have never been confirmed, so I suppose it's fair to
claim that Namine is Sora's Nobody, but I have my own reasons
to categorize Namine as Kairi's Nobody. In part, it's because her
appearance is primarily based off her, plus Namine merged with
Kairi at the end of KH2.

Also that means nothing if Namine is Sora's nobody anyway because it does not mean she took his body and soul with her.

Indeed, just because Namine was born from Sora, doesn't mean
she is composed of her vessel. However, Namine being composed
of Sora's vessel is a possible scenario.

Roxas is the most likely concept. This is why Namine is special...special in her own way; special because she lacks the needs of a nobody. She is in a different category of 'special nobodies' than Roxas.

Quite possible...
however, if she lacks the needs of a
nobody, wouldn't make her not a Nobody?

About Ansem SoD being just a heart, that is my belief as
well. From what we have observed from the game, it's possible
to claim otherwise, however I too some'what recall Nomura
saying he was just a heart as well. The thing about being just
a heart is that it implies the imagery of being a heart shaped
object rather than being a glowing hooded phantom. I think
the visual form of Ansem SoD might just be a projection of
his heart with the ability of some physical manipulation.
Despite just being a heart, Ansem SoD needed some way
to be manipulate objects, otherwise how could he have
written the rest of the report.

[lionsbarrage]

Again it doesn't need to be confirmed that nobodies look like their original selves. They most likely do. Again have you not read what I wrote of why they do look like their original selves? The human nobodies look like their original selves because of their strong hearts...as well as the nobodies coming from their somebody's body and soul so it would have the same type of body structure as their somebody was. A dusk is completely different. We aren't discussing about those kind of nobodies. We are talking about Organization XIII and Namine. Xemnas looks like Xehanort, as well as Sora - Roxas, and there's Kairi- Namine. There doesn't need to be any more evidence to confirm this. Also, no...we've gone over this. Namine is more of Sora's nobody than Kairi. This is why I confirm Namine to be Sora's nobody because Kairi's heart was attached to Sora's vessel at the time he turned into a heartless. In other words Namine would never have been created without Sora thus Sora is responsible for Namine, and he takes most of the credit. Also that means nothing if Namine is Sora's nobody anyway because it does not mean she took his body and soul with her. Roxas is the most likely concept. This is why Namine is special...special in her own way; special because she lacks the needs of a nobody. She is in a different category of 'special nobodies' than Roxas


This isnt real life, everything in this game doesnt nee a confirmation it seems, ir order for anyones theories to be fully right. Human nobodies or non human nobodies as key and i have put it are the same thing. U say we arent tlaking about the non human types and only the org. and nmiane but we I say is that they are nobodies none the less, no difference except for the fact they look human, even then in order to even have a nobody u have to have a strong heart, but no where does it mentioend the stronger it is the more likely chance it has to be human looking, this could be true but it nots a fact, and its wrong to a ssume things based on those examples we have since as key also put it they are special nobodies. Ur entitled to ur opinion on Nmaine but the fact confirmation is She's Kairi's nobodoy or comes more so from Kairi. Her existence as a nobody may be owed to Sora but that doesnt make her his nobody. If his body wasnt use than Sora may not have had anything to do with her, wether he idd or didnt isnt fully clear, as for Namine being special either.



Even though its been said countless times that Xehanort was an existence of a heart yet you do still do not agree with that concept. Are you against Nomura's words as well?


What a person calls themselves means nothing if they themeslves are wrong, Eveev for Nomura i dont recall ever aggreeing with that statement, mentioning those words of existence of a heart isnt any cofnirmation that confirmed that he was, unlike the statment of him being a heartless.


....heartless are purifed of darkness.


Not sure what u imply here, since heartless are basically just darkness lol, and being purifiedlike i said isnt true to a full extent since some darkness will always be there.



That makes absoutely no sense at all.

Only to u, just cause u say it doesnt, doesnt mean it doesnt make sense, but in our minds it does, again the details of how and why may not be there, they may never be, but that doesnt mean he didnt gain a new one.



....Xehanort was lacking a body. He said it himself. He lacked a body. He lost his body because it created Xemnas thus this is why you see him as a phantom ghost like creature. He was still an existence of a heart though. Xehanort never had a vessel at all after he was created to a heartless. That's what heartless are anyway. Heartless are the hearts, while the nobodies take the body and soul. Also, Xehanort used Riku's vessel. He never had his own vessel after he turned into a heartless.
Riku had his heart body and soul
Xehanort was a heart, lacking a body and soul
Xehanort took over Riku's vessel by kicking Riku's heart and sending it into the Realm of Darkness thus because of Xehanort's strong heart changed his appearence using Riku's vessel but from Xehanort's heart so therefore, no...Xehanort never got a new body before he took over Riku. What do you think Xehanort's goal was? To get a new body and thus that is when he got Riku to take over him, etc. It makes absoutely no sense that Xehanort would just get a brand new body from magic out of nowhere after when he was turned into a heartless. It's different with Sora because Kairi purefied the darkness from him.


Ur huge wall of text means jack, when u dont thouroghly read my paragraphs. Cause i was talking about Sora, not Xeahnort. Of course Xeahnort never did have a psysical body.


For goodness sakes Xehanort was a heartless lacking a body and soul. What do you think his main goal was? He had to find a body thus he got Riku


Once again u still dont get im not evern talking about Xehanort, this tiem im talking abotu Riku' case.



Yes he does....Roxas came from Sora thus making Roxas has an appearence of Ven/Sora. Sora is the key connection because he has something of Ven inside him somehow. Without Sora there's no connection at all because then Roxas would not have been born, etc.


As much as that would be possible at the same time he doesnt have to be, usch as VEn being preserved somehow, or much like Ansem's case beig erased somehow, or his body being kept safe and somehow being used in the composistion of Roxas, for the simple case of Roxas's self or w/e ties him to Sora makes him act differently yet similar to Sora and VEn, just the body came from Ven thats all. Sora being the key between the 2, has a high chance of being true, but at the same time based on what we know or how little we know he also has chance of not.


No.

U can say that all u want , doesnt make it true.



For goodness sake its been confirmed in the reports...has been said by Nomura, etc that Xehanort did not have a body nor soul when he was a heartless. You really don't agree to any of my statements don't you? Even though Xehanort being a heart before taking over Riku is 100% true and I'm not just saying that on my words either.

Do u even take the time to read my stuff? When have i ever said Xeahnrot had a body or soul after becoming a heartless? Xehanort was heartless and didnt have a physical body, the only things i ever said is that i dont think he was just an existence of a heart, which in that stament, hasn't really been confirmed.

[DarkSoldier]

This isnt real life, everything in this game doesnt nee a confirmation it seems, ir order for anyones theories to be fully right.
This doesn't need to be real life. Its the KH Universe, thus the KH Universe would have rules. If no game had rules might as well have Sora shooting lazers from his eyes and flying with wings, etc. That 'this isn't real life' isn't going to work against a debate.
but no where does it mentioend the stronger it is the more likely chance it has to be human looking, this could be true but it nots a fact, and its wrong to a ssume things based on those examples we have since as key also put it they are special nobodies.
Might as well not even have a debate because you clearly do not understand what I mean...
Ur entitled to ur opinion on Nmaine but the fact confirmation is She's Kairi's nobodoy or comes more so from Kairi. Her existence as a nobody may be owed to Sora but that doesnt make her his nobody. If his body wasnt use than Sora may not have had anything to do with her, wether he idd or didnt isnt fully clear, as for Namine being special either.
No. May you please provide me a link where it says ANYWHERE that Namine is Kairi's nobody? A source from Nomura, etc? There will be none because it has never been confirmed. You are saying that I cannot assume things, and yet you are doing the same for Namine = Kairi's nobody which is being a hypocrite. Not once has it ever been mentioned that Kairi's nobody is Namine, not once. Also, again if you don't believe Namine is Sora's nobody why would she take Sora's body and soul with her if thats not even her somebody? Exactly. Also, Sora was the reason for Namine's birth....its been said by Nomura. Both Roxas and Namine were created because of Sora turning into a heartless therefore Namine owes her birth to Sora.
What a person calls themselves means nothing if they themeslves are wrong, Eveev for Nomura i dont recall ever aggreeing with that statement, mentioning those words of existence of a heart isnt any cofnirmation that confirmed that he was, unlike the statment of him being a heartless.
....wow. You clearly do not accept facts.
Only to u, just cause u say it doesnt, doesnt mean it doesnt make sense, but in our minds it does, again the details of how and why may not be there, they may never be, but that doesnt mean he didnt gain a new one.
Only to me? That's false as many other people besides me believe that Xehanort was just a heart. Here are reasons why Xehanort can't have a vessel let alone before taking over Riku:
1- Xehanort was a phantom like ghost. If he had a body wouldn't it be a physical body? Exactly....this debate is completely unreasonable
2- Heartless are the hearts. Xehanort turned into a heartless therefore he had no body and soul. He's called an existance of a heart because he did not go through the full transformation of a heartless as he kept his sense of self and didn't even turn into one. Heartless lack bodies and souls and since Xehanort is a heartless, he lacks one. It is not rocket science to figure this out.
3-If Xehanort had a vessel before taking over Riku why in god's name would he bother interacting with Riku? How in the world would he go inside Riku if he already had a body? Simple. He had no body and soul and was just a floating heart. You clearly do not understand.
Ur huge wall of text means jack, when u dont thouroghly read my paragraphs. Cause i was talking about Sora, not Xeahnort. Of course Xeahnort never did have a psysical body.
Why are you changing the subject of all a sudden? You were speaking about Xehanort therefore I quoted what you said so I gave the answer.
Once again u still dont get im not evern talking about Xehanort, this tiem im talking abotu Riku' case
Yet again you keep switiching subjects..first to Xehanort, then to Sora, now Riku? If anything you were speaking about Xehanort first which is why I quoted you a couple of times based on what you spoke of Xehanort saying how you believe he was never a floating heart to begin with as that is clearly false.
Do u even take the time to read my stuff? When have i ever said Xeahnrot had a body or soul after becoming a heartless? Xehanort was heartless and didnt have a physical body, the only things i ever said is that i dont think he was just an existence of a heart, which in that stament, hasn't really been confirmed.
"For one again i dont think Xehanort was a flaoting heart to begin with, and realms do mean alot, especially if heartless did exist yet only in one realm at one point, simple things like that, what is meant is that things might have been affected differently For him where his heart resided."

Xehanort was a heart, end of story.

[Key of Valor]

Sora may not have had anything to do with her, wether he idd or didnt isnt fully clear, as for Namine being special either.

Well Nomura appears to have confirmed that
Sora played a key role in Namine's existence.

In KHII FM's additional event "To Put an End to Everything", Sora says "It should have been easy to say thanks to Namine, but I couldn't say it". At this point in time, does Sora remember the things that happened with Namine?

Nomura: If he remembers, it's because Namine's existence was made possible by Sora, and when Namine and Roxas returned to Kairi and Sora, many things were connected. Since Sora never got to say thanks to Namine, please think of that as a hint.

No. May you please provide me a link where it says ANYWHERE that Namine is Kairi's nobody? A source from Nomura, etc? There will be none because it has never been confirmed. You are saying that I cannot assume things, and yet you are doing the same for Namine = Kairi's nobody which is being a hypocrite. Not once has it ever been mentioned that Kairi's nobody is Namine, not once.

lol, don't mind me, I'm just appreciating some irony.

I believe you're right DarkSoldier, that it never was confirmed
that Namine was Kairi's Nobody. As someone who carefully
examined every interview and section from Another Report
in hopes of confirming Namine as Kairi's Nobody, even til this
day I have never found such a statement. I believe such
a statement likely does not exist.

but again, lol, it's the same argument for why Roxas might
not be composed of Sora's body and soul.

As a side note though, Nomura did say:
'Namine and Roxas returned to Kairi and Sora'
One could argue that to 'return' one must first
'come from' which might indicate that some
part belonging to either Namine or Roxas came
from Kairi and thus returned to her.

It doesn't mean Namine is Kairi's Nobody, but
it's as close as any one of Nomura's statements
ever got to saying it.

Also, again if you don't believe Namine is Sora's nobody why would she take Sora's body and soul with her if thats not even her somebody? Exactly.

Exactly what? The way I personally explain that
is how Kairi's heart was attached to Sora's vessel,
so that vessel had Kairi's Imprint on it, so if Imprints
determine which Nobody is whose, then I believe
Kairi's Imprint was more dominant that Sora Imprint,
so Sora's vessel became Kairi's Nobody, Namine.


Only to me? That's false as many other people besides me believe that Xehanort was just a heart. Here are reasons why Xehanort can't have a vessel let alone before taking over Riku:
1- Xehanort was a phantom like ghost. If he had a body wouldn't it be a physical body? Exactly....this debate is completely unreasonable
2- Heartless are the hearts. Xehanort turned into a heartless therefore he had no body and soul. He's called an existance of a heart because he did not go through the full transformation of a heartless as he kept his sense of self and didn't even turn into one. Heartless lack bodies and souls and since Xehanort is a heartless, he lacks one. It is not rocket science to figure this out.
3-If Xehanort had a vessel before taking over Riku why in god's name would he bother interacting with Riku? How in the world would he go inside Riku if he already had a body? Simple. He had no body and soul and was just a floating heart. You clearly do not understand.

Um... I would recommend tracing that chain of quotes
back... won't you guys talking about Sora getting a
new vessel?

Why are you changing the subject of all a sudden? You were speaking about Xehanort therefore I quoted what you said so I gave the answer.

Yet again you keep switiching subjects..first to Xehanort, then to Sora, now Riku? If anything you were speaking about Xehanort first which is why I quoted you a couple of times based on what you spoke of Xehanort saying how you believe he was never a floating heart to begin with as that is clearly false.

I don't mean to be rude or anything, but I wouldn't be
accusing other people of changing subjects if were I you.
It seems you confused what the subject was on one of
your more recent posts. Technically, your the one that
changed the subject... (even more irony)

If you read back over what you two have been quoting,
you'll see that lionsbarrage was talking about Sora while
you thought he was talking about Xehanort's Heartless.

[lionsbarrage]

This doesn't need to be real life. Its the KH Universe, thus the KH Universe would have rules. If no game had rules might as well have Sora shooting lazers from his eyes and flying with wings, etc. That 'this isn't real life' isn't going to work against a debate.

If and when a games has rules they are always different than real life, especially if it is a fantasy game e based on magic. Sora shooting lasers and all that stuff well possible since theres no stating it cant happen, but there just wouldnt be a point, but fact is u can have an opinion, but when u start treating things like fact when they arent confirmed and only based on assumptions its speaks wrongly baout those who have different ideas that are also possible wether they are likely to happen or not. And frankyl the this isnt real life saying is all that there is need to be said when disucssing fantasy, KH may have certain rules again, but many of them always seem to have exceptions.



Might as well not even have a debate because you clearly do not understand what I mean...

We get what u mean, but ur to stubborn to accept other possibilities, we arent. But something as simple as nobodies having to look like their orignal selves if they are human sint something thats been really mentioned. Itd be different if it was but its just a fan based assumption at this point.


No. May you please provide me a link where it says ANYWHERE that Namine is Kairi's nobody? A source from Nomura, etc? There will be none because it has never been confirmed. You are saying that I cannot assume things, and yet you are doing the same for Namine = Kairi's nobody which is being a hypocrite. Not once has it ever been mentioned that Kairi's nobody is Namine, not once. Also, again if you don't believe Namine is Sora's nobody why would she take Sora's body and soul with her if thats not even her somebody? Exactly. Also, Sora was the reason for Namine's birth....its been said by Nomura. Both Roxas and Namine were created because of Sora turning into a heartless therefore Namine owes her birth to Sora.


If i had no life to search for a certain line that does claim it so i would, but i know it would only be a waste becuase along with other things we brought forth u turn it away or twist it, Even so one can very well state that Roxas than isnt Sora's nobody at all then, just because the characters state it dont make it so then huh, or the fact that ROxas much like NAmine did with Kairi returned to their selves huh? Namine is not Sora's nobody and this isnt an assumption, so dont call me a hypocrite. Her existence might have been owed to Sora but again it may not, and that interview u posted key, again its maybe maybe not statement based if Sora remember, thats why theres the words, "if he did." (IF). And also as i ve stated many times even if Namine did get Sora's body for her composistion that wouldnt exactly mean she was his nobody. BAsed on soley the hypothesis by Ansem its a logical scenario that may have happened, if it did, theres that special soemthing thats not the body that may tie the nobody to its original self.



....wow. You clearly do not accept facts


I know facts alot more than u seem to think, but i also know reasonable thoughts, circumstantioal evidence, assumptions, and wether or not something is clearly and i emphazise clearly confirmed. just cause he calls himself something doesnt exactly spell truth, i could say i am a dragon or somehting and not a human, does that make it true? no.


Only to me? That's false as many other people besides me believe that Xehanort was just a heart. Here are reasons why Xehanort can't have a vessel let alone before taking over Riku:
1- Xehanort was a phantom like ghost. If he had a body wouldn't it be a physical body? Exactly....this debate is completely unreasonable
2- Heartless are the hearts. Xehanort turned into a heartless therefore he had no body and soul. He's called an existance of a heart because he did not go through the full transformation of a heartless as he kept his sense of self and didn't even turn into one. Heartless lack bodies and souls and since Xehanort is a heartless, he lacks one. It is not rocket science to figure this out.
3-If Xehanort had a vessel before taking over Riku why in god's name would he bother interacting with Riku? How in the world would he go inside Riku if he already had a body? Simple. He had no body and soul and was just a floating heart. You clearly do not understand


And for the 3rd time in a row, u still dont get that the part u qouted me on was tlaking abotu Sora never Xehanort. I have never ever stated Xehanort as a heartless had a body or physical vessel. and when i say stuff only in ur eyes i mean that for this right here. I know there may be guys that agree with u or how u think, but that still doesnt make it right, but reguardless of that were the only ones discussing these things and ur the only one out of the 3 that always sees thigns as not making sense.



Why are you changing the subject of all a sudden? You were speaking about Xehanort therefore I quoted what you said so I gave the answer.


I never changed the subject as ive stated 4 times now i never said Xehanrot had a body, i Never said those words. The things i mentioned were only about Sora getting a new body and Xehanort being a heartless, or Riku getting his body back.



Yet again you keep switiching subjects..first to Xehanort, then to Sora, now Riku? If anything you were speaking about Xehanort first which is why I quoted you a couple of times based on what you spoke of Xehanort saying how you believe he was never a floating heart to begin with as that is clearly false.


I dont change the subject u do. Everytime u qouted me and replied about that qoute i checked to say what u were qouting me on, and each time u twisted it around to Xehanort when they were on different subjects. Also never believg he was just a floating heart to begin with isnt clearly false, sicne its no a confirmed truth yet, and by the looks and evidence at least the way i see it it isnt true, but i wont deny any of the possibilities.




Xehanort was a heart, end of story.

Well u can believe and see it that way, but its not just as clear as that, wether true or not, and i mean in just a heart nothing else isnt quite simple as that.


I do suggest rereading the stuff u qouted me on or the post itself, maybe ull see i was never talking about Xehanort having a body, the stuff or words i said wouldnt make sense even if Xehanort did have a body.

[Key of Valor]

If i had no life to search for a certain line that does claim it so i would, but i know it would only be a waste becuase along with other things we brought forth u turn it away or twist it, Even so one can very well state that Roxas than isnt Sora's nobody at all then, just because the characters state it dont make it so then huh, or the fact that ROxas much like NAmine did with Kairi returned to their selves huh? Namine is not Sora's nobody and this isnt an assumption, so dont call me a hypocrite.

To be fair, it wasn't really said that Namine was Kairi's Nobody,
nor was it said that Namine wasn't Sora's Nobody. Yes, Namine
merged with Kairi, which is strong indication that Namine might
be primarily something of Kairi's, but it doesn't necessarily have
to be conclusive proof. So it's possible to claim Namine as Sora's
Nobody... but by making such a claim, then would be the
explanation for Namine to merge with Kairi?

Her existence might have been owed to Sora but again it may not, and that interview u posted key, again its maybe maybe not statement based if Sora remember, thats why theres the words, "if he did." (IF).

Indeed, Nomura didn't exactly establish that Namine
owes her existence to Sora, but is his statement was
more of a conditional.

If Sora did remember Namine from CoM,
then Namine owes her existence to Sora.

If Sora didn't remember Namine from CoM, then
Namine might not owe her existence to Sora.

However, if Sora didn't remember the events from CoM,
then what's going on in that one scene were he seems
to reference it before the fight?

[SufferingAngel]

Just my regular 2 cents being that if they really cared about having Namine be made up of nothing, I doubt AtW would've spent the better part of his reports saying Namine was born when he said she was.
Namine being born of Sora instead of from Kairi changes not in the least her taking nothing from either. It just comes to explain why she's related to Sora's Memories instead of Kairi's, having originated from him and not Kairi.
2 cents :3~

[Key of Valor]

Just my regular 2 cents being that if they really cared about having Namine be made up of nothing, I doubt AtW would've spent the better part of his reports saying Namine was born when he said she was.
Namine being born of Sora instead of from Kairi changes not in the least her taking nothing from either. It just comes to explain why she's related to Sora's Memories instead of Kairi's, having originated from him and not Kairi.
2 cents :3~

Thing is though, Namine merged with Kairi, which is
strong indication that she originated from her.

It's possible for Namine to have taken Sora's vessel.
Even if she didn't though, she likely still has something
originating from Kairi, which would explain why she
merged with Kairi at the end.

[SufferingAngel]

Thing is though, Namine merged with Kairi, which is
strong indication that she originated from her.

Her Heart, yes. But as you like to remind us all, the B+S she came from, taking something along or not, was Sora's. That much was well confirmed in abundance by Nomura. I'm not doubting which Heart she originated from, nor whose Nobody she is. Just that it never bothered anyone she was made up of nothing :P regardless of the 'womb' she was 'born' from.

It's possible for Namine to have taken Sora's vessel.
Even if she didn't though, she likely still has something
originating from Kairi, which would explain why she
merged with Kairi at the end.

Actually, her merging with Kairi would stand to show she either lacks anything from Sora's, or we're up with a major plot hole, alternatively, one hell of a plot development waiting to explode in our face. What with Kairi having a part of Sora's being in her, while being a whole being herself and all. However, seeing how Roxas was never explained to be lacking anything, and was repeatedly said to be Sora's Nobody and thus his B+S, one would assume he's Sora's vessel in full.

[Key of Valor]

Her Heart, yes. But as you like to remind us all, the B+S she came from, taking something along or not, was Sora's. That much was well confirmed in abundance by Nomura. I'm not doubting which Heart she originated from, nor whose Nobody she is. Just that it never bothered anyone she was made up of nothing :P regardless of the 'womb' she was 'born' from.

Well Roxas is tied to that anomaly as well,
two Nobodies born from one vessel. who would
have the time to question that mystery? Probably
only Xemnas and Ansem the Wise.

When lost his heart, something allowed
Namine to come into existence, and even
if she originated in part from Sora, she
could have also originated from Kairi as
well. Perhaps at one point she primarily
originated from a piece of Kairi, which
would be why she merges with her.

Actually, her merging with Kairi would stand to show she either lacks anything from Sora's, or we're up with a major plot hole, alternatively, one hell of a plot development waiting to explode in our face. What with Kairi having a part of Sora's being in her, while being a whole being herself and all. However, seeing how Roxas was never explained to be lacking anything, and was repeatedly said to be Sora's Nobody and thus his B+S, one would assume he's Sora's vessel in full.

Well no, if Namine did have Sora's vessel, and did merge with
Kairi, Sora's vessel wouldn't become a part of Kairi. I suspect
the vessel's existence would no longer need to be sustained so
the power that allowed it exist might return to Sora's heart.
Thus, potential for it not to be a plot hole.

Just because Roxas is Sora's Nobody though, doesn't necessarily
mean he has Sora's vessel. If Kairi's Nobody isn't composed of
Kairi's vessel, then perhaps Sora's Nobody doesn't need to be
composed of Sora's vessel.

[lionsbarrage]

Her Heart, yes. But as you like to remind us all, the B+S she came from, taking something along or not, was Sora's. That much was well confirmed in abundance by Nomura. I'm not doubting which Heart she originated from, nor whose Nobody she is. Just that it never bothered anyone she was made up of nothing :P regardless of the 'womb' she was 'born' from.

What we or at least for me perceieve to be real is real, Namine being made up of nothing just doesnt seem to be the case, to be called as a nobody and yet reguardless of what made her composistion still was tied with Kairi, She had a physicial vessel, the same people in game say that Roxas is Sora's nobody, but they dont stop and wonder of the possibilities, of there being mroe info to nobodies than we know.



Actually, her merging with Kairi would stand to show she either lacks anything from Sora's, or we're up with a major plot hole, alternatively, one hell of a plot development waiting to explode in our face. What with Kairi having a part of Sora's being in her, while being a whole being herself and all. However, seeing how Roxas was never explained to be lacking anything, and was repeatedly said to be Sora's Nobody and thus his B+S, one would assume he's Sora's vessel in full.


I dont think theres really that much of a plot hole though XIon i think really takes the cake for that if she was somehow originated from Kairi as well. Anyways Namine going to Kairi i think is more or less Roxas going to Sora. For me Sora had a new body so merly the shell i dont think is what he needed from Roxas, Roxas held something but in reguards to exactly what its hard to say. Alot do sya about ROxas being Sora's nobody, but i think most at least from the non org. people got that from Ansem the Wise first stating so, but even he made a point to theorize that though the specific people may be their nobodies it doesnt have to be that those nobodies carry their originals body.

[DarkSoldier]

When lost his heart, something allowed
Namine to come into existence, and even
if she originated in part from Sora, she
could have also originated from Kairi as
well. Perhaps at one point she primarily
originated from a piece of Kairi, which
would be why she merges with her.
Kairi's heart, and born from Sora's vessel.....it doesn't mean that she took Sora's vessel with her. It means she was born from it though. That's entirely different.
Just because Roxas is Sora's Nobody though, doesn't necessarily
mean he has Sora's vessel. If Kairi's Nobody isn't composed of
Kairi's vessel, then perhaps Sora's Nobody doesn't need to be
composed of Sora's vessel.
That's because Namine is in her own special category of nobodies. As you said yourself we don't have too much information on nobodies so it may not only be the body and soul that are allowed for them to come into existence as seeing right now as she lacks both. Also, its because Kairi is pure. She's a princess of heart therefore no darkness in her heart. This is why Namine is a special born creation. Sora, on the other hand is not pure light and he turned himself into a heartless therefore he created Roxas at this point. For one thing, Roxas mainly looks a lot like Sora. Yes it has not been confirmed that nobodies have to look like their original self but again they came from their somebody's body and soul therefore their body structure would look a bit similar to each other which both Roxas and Sora has. Also there's a good chance Roxas can be Sora's nobody because he holds 'half of what he is. Though, that can mean 2 different things but either way its still a very good example.

Namine = came from a POH
Roxas= did not

Namine is very special because not only does she have the complete resemblence of Kairi she lacks the needs of a nobody. She is not necessarily made from 'nothing'. She was created from Sora's body and soul. She's not made from 'nothing'. She HAS nothing. Born from Sora's body and soul, with Kairi's heart but lacks the needs because Sora's body and soul most likely went to Roxas. Roxas can also wield the keyblade and has so many similar connections towards Sora that Namine does not. Also, Namine was only born because of Sora. Sora was the key in Namine being born. Also, "If Kairi's Nobody isn't composed of Kairi's vessel, then perhaps Sora's nobody doesn't need to be composed of Sora's vessel."
The only reason Namine lacks the vessel of Kairi is because Kairi is a POH...no darkness in her heart, no heartless thus no vessel can fall into the Realm of InBetween thus no nobody. If Kairi was just like Sora (with little darkness in her heart) she would have created Namine but she never did. Sora did. Sora is not a POH so its different.

[SufferingAngel]

I'd like to point out now that Namine, unlikes other Nobodies, didn't want to exist in the sense the rest of the Nobodies did. She didn't want to have a Heart in the sense that she didn't want to exist on her own. She wanted to have her existence recognized by others - by Sora. It wasn't until that was proved to be impossible that she resorted to disappearing into Kairi.
Roxas struggled profoundly to keep from losing his 'self'. He insisted on being a separate entity. The Organization's whole motif was to become their own selves and have their own Existence to hold onto.
Namine sought that out in someone else. That's a pretty damn huge difference right there, proving that she's unlike any Nobody we've seen thus far.

[vivi_master]

I have to say, Twilight Roxas is probably not really Soras Nobody. It is just the copy of the original, the two blade weilding roxas I hope is the orginial. But, could that Roxas be an embodyment of all three of the main characters? Sora, Riku, Kairi? Sora the body, Riku the Oblivion Keyblade, and Kairi the Oathkeeper. Also, if Riku gave into the darkness, eh may have kept his original form as a heartless, but what of his nobody? Could the three knights in the specila video for KH2 ending, could they be Rikus, Soras, and Kairis Nobodys? Blue haired girl could be Kairis, from red, to white, ... maybe blue? Soras Nobody could be the one who has the big ace keyblade (I call it Colossus), and Rikus could be the oen who picks up Rikus keyblade. I know it's a little far fetched but there is nothing that turlly disproves any of this. We kon't know if nobodys can't fuse to make new beings, heartless can. And we don't know the true identitys of the three armered knights, do we?

[SufferingAngel]

Uh, no. Twilight Roxas is the real Roxas o.o; he was transported into the Digital Twilight Town nicely enough. And he's only Sora's "embodyment". Riku and Kairi come into play via the Keychains, being from Sora's Memories of them.

Riku never became a Heartless. He has no Nobody.

The three knights are Terra, Aqua, and Ven, the characters for Birth By Sleep. The game takes place 10 years before KH1. Hence, they can't be anyone's Nobodies - because Nobodies didn't exist yet.

And why do the people here think that "you can't disprove this" is better than "it makes sense, AND has basis"?

[lionsbarrage]

Uh, no. Twilight Roxas is the real Roxas o.o; he was transported into the Digital Twilight Town nicely enough. And he's only Sora's "embodyment". Riku and Kairi come into play via the Keychains, being from Sora's Memories of them.

Riku never became a Heartless. He has no Nobody.

The three knights are Terra, Aqua, and Ven, the characters for Birth By Sleep. The game takes place 10 years before KH1. Hence, they can't be anyone's Nobodies - because Nobodies didn't exist yet.

And why do the people here think that "you can't disprove this" is better than "it makes sense, AND has basis"?


this is basically the full truth, in response to vivi_master's post. If this was a long time ago when there was more possibilities it might have held soemthing cept for RIku having a nobody that was never true. That is a bad example of u cant disprove this. But the ones who make solid theories that does make sense and have basis are ones that are possible and considered.



I'd like to point out now that Namine, unlikes other Nobodies, didn't want to exist in the sense the rest of the Nobodies did. She didn't want to have a Heart in the sense that she didn't want to exist on her own. She wanted to have her existence recognized by others - by Sora. It wasn't until that was proved to be impossible that she resorted to disappearing into Kairi.
Roxas struggled profoundly to keep from losing his 'self'. He insisted on being a separate entity. The Organization's whole motif was to become their own selves and have their own Existence to hold onto.
Namine sought that out in someone else. That's a pretty damn huge difference right there, proving that she's unlike any Nobody we've seen thus far.


Actually i foudn them both to be that similar. Bot hwanted to be their seperate entities, Roxas i feel more so expressed it and his will to not dissapear. Namine i feel wanted the same, i dont know about trying to be recognized in her existence by Sora, but what they wanted was different, because they were both special. Huge difference or not they just wanted something different than the org. while maybe not surprising after all this, it also just plainly talking about certain traits.



Kairi's heart, and born from Sora's vessel.....it doesn't mean that she took Sora's vessel with her. It means she was born from it though. That's entirely different.


Not when its mostly the heart that can make up the essence of a nobody. After all the body is just that. the shell of soemone, yet Namine belongs to Kairi in a way thats stronger than even if she owes her nobody existence to Sora. Wether she took his body or not. Which the same would be said abotu Roxas, if his body did not come from Sora's.



That's because Namine is in her own special category of nobodies. As you said yourself we don't have too much information on nobodies so it may not only be the body and soul that are allowed for them to come into existence as seeing right now as she lacks both. Also, its because Kairi is pure. She's a princess of heart therefore no darkness in her heart. This is why Namine is a special born creation. Sora, on the other hand is not pure light and he turned himself into a heartless therefore he created Roxas at this point. For one thing, Roxas mainly looks a lot like Sora. Yes it has not been confirmed that nobodies have to look like their original self but again they came from their somebody's body and soul therefore their body structure would look a bit similar to each other which both Roxas and Sora has. Also there's a good chance Roxas can be Sora's nobody because he holds 'half of what he is. Though, that can mean 2 different things but either way its still a very good example.

Namine = came from a POH
Roxas= did not

Namine is very special because not only does she have the complete resemblence of Kairi she lacks the needs of a nobody. She is not necessarily made from 'nothing'. She was created from Sora's body and soul. She's not made from 'nothing'. She HAS nothing. Born from Sora's body and soul, with Kairi's heart but lacks the needs because Sora's body and soul most likely went to Roxas. Roxas can also wield the keyblade and has so many similar connections towards Sora that Namine does not. Also, Namine was only born because of Sora. Sora was the key in Namine being born. Also, "If Kairi's Nobody isn't composed of Kairi's vessel, then perhaps Sora's nobody doesn't need to be composed of Sora's vessel."
The only reason Namine lacks the vessel of Kairi is because Kairi is a POH...no darkness in her heart, no heartless thus no vessel can fall into the Realm of InBetween thus no nobody. If Kairi was just like Sora (with little darkness in her heart) she would have created Namine but she never did. Sora did. Sora is not a POH so its different.



It isnt that different, for that certain scenario yes it would be, but Namine if having any composistion from anyone at all proved to be true especially Sora's the doors open for Roxas of course not having Sora body and again so much that Others that just lose their heart can have a helping i nthe process of a nobody. Being born out of something is different than being born from something, the composistion is all the same just the shell. Because of losing ones heart the body somehow tends to follow it into darkness, while those pure when left the body doesnt. We know this. However If Sora body being used for Roxas, he like Kairi would have nothing to offer in the making of Namine, thats the thing right there. Unless his body was used for Namine that would be cause to say that he possibily didnt have anything to do with her creation, just the same as certain scenarios where he woulda been. So simply put it would make no difference Kairi's heart coming out of her own body or Sora's if Sora's body were to not be used for Namine and be used for Roxas, and yet still has to be a key. Ther may be ways around this scenario of course, which we obviously cant come up with facts, because we of course dont know everythign about nobodies, but the same cna be said in our scenarios as well. JUst a matter of opnions and views.

[SufferingAngel]

Actually i foudn them both to be that similar. Bot hwanted to be their seperate entities, Roxas i feel more so expressed it and his will to not dissapear. Namine i feel wanted the same, i dont know about trying to be recognized in her existence by Sora, but what they wanted was different, because they were both special. Huge difference or not they just wanted something different than the org. while maybe not surprising after all this, it also just plainly talking about certain traits.

Not really. Roxas was similar in his approach to a lot of the other Org members. He wanted to exist on his own, to be his own person - with his own Heart. "My Heart belongs to me" and all that.
Namine didn't go there. The existence she wanted was from an outside source. More so admittance of her existence than the actual existence.

[lionsbarrage]

Not really. Roxas was similar in his approach to a lot of the other Org members. He wanted to exist on his own, to be his own person - with his own Heart. "My Heart belongs to me" and all that.
Namine didn't go there. The existence she wanted was from an outside source. More so admittance of her existence than the actual existence.


We dont really know what Roxas wanted inside his time with the org. i think only after being in the fake twilight town, before and after regaining his memories did he express what he wanted, in or out of the org. i saw him very different then the org. They wanted their heart back but Roxas felt as if he already had one, as if he was already his own person. Namine wanted to be around people but i wouldnt say she wanted people to react to her existence, like anyone else she just doesnt wnat to be alone. Those are the major expressions i see, going into too much detail though or even all this is just opnion based, theres really no right or wrong.

[SufferingAngel]

But see, that's the thing. Namine didn't want to be alone. Roxas has friendship as a motif, yes, but he wanted to be his own person. Namine wanted to exist inside someone else's Heart. The two are incomparable. Namine's dependent on other people acknowledging her. Roxas acknowledges himself.

:\ and saying it's all a matter of opinion is running away from debate. If you don't want to go on with it, say so clearly without excusing yourself.

[lionsbarrage]

But see, that's the thing. Namine didn't want to be alone. Roxas has friendship as a motif, yes, but he wanted to be his own person. Namine wanted to exist inside someone else's Heart. The two are incomparable. Namine's dependent on other people acknowledging her. Roxas acknowledges himself.

:\ and saying it's all a matter of opinion is running away from debate. If you don't want to go on with it, say so clearly without excusing yourself.


I never said she wanted to be alone. Shed already been alone for a long enough time according to her. The 2 are indeed compariable, yes of course there are some differences but nothing too major and nothing worth debating over since reguardless it doesnt affect the story at all. Im not running away from anything but fact is it is opinion, thats what alot of theorizing is, i dont put things as im right ur wrong or ur right im wrong, because im not that arrogant.

[DarkSoldier]

I never said she wanted to be alone. Shed already been alone for a long enough time according to her. The 2 are indeed compariable, yes of course there are some differences but nothing too major and nothing worth debating over since reguardless it doesnt affect the story at all. Im not running away from anything but fact is it is opinion, thats what alot of theorizing is, i dont put things as im right ur wrong or ur right im wrong, because im not that arrogant.
....so your still arrogant and over the pointless debates we've had a couple of times in the past you accuse me of being arrogant and denied that you ever were yet right here you say you are? This is exactly why I mention your 'hypocriticy'..and its another reason for me leaving the group. You just cannot accept the facts and constantly switch the wording around time, and time.

[SufferingAngel]

I never said she wanted to be alone. Shed already been alone for a long enough time according to her. The 2 are indeed compariable, yes of course there are some differences but nothing too major and nothing worth debating over

I never said she wanted to be alone. I was putting out differences in motifs.
Roxas liked to have friends, yes, but it wasn't something he desired on the basic level. He wanted to exist on his own, be his own person, and he wanted to know that for himself. No one else had to say it to him.
With Namine it was different. She needed Sora to tell her she existed. She never needed to know on her own she did. She never seemed to want a Heart.
Hence, they're different.

since reguardless it doesnt affect the story at all. Im not running away from anything but fact is it is opinion, thats what alot of theorizing is, i dont put things as im right ur wrong or ur right im wrong, because im not that arrogant.

Actually, Namine's wants and needs add up with her already being barely a Nobody to begin with. It further throws her being a "Nobody" into question since she further breaks the rules, now on those of basic behavior.

And this isn't you saying it's all a matter of opinion, this is you cancelling out the debate because you think it's unimportant. So now who's being arrogant? :D

[Chrono Mizaki]

I never said she wanted to be alone. Shed already been alone for a long enough time according to her. The 2 are indeed compariable, yes of course there are some differences but nothing too major and nothing worth debating over since reguardless it doesnt affect the story at all. Im not running away from anything but fact is it is opinion, thats what alot of theorizing is, i dont put things as im right ur wrong or ur right im wrong, because im not that arrogant.

HAH, You always been arrogant that you're just a bloody joke. I've read those debates with dark soldier and despite the likely facts there, you like to go to the opposite way and try to have some unrealiable theories so you can set yourself apart from the others. If that isn't what you're trying to aim for, then I don't know what.

I might not be good at theories, but I'm helluva good at reading them. And so far, you hardly make sense at all that it's unbelievable. Key of Valor, despite people being negative towards him, actually make theories that are understandable.

Kingdom Hearts Investigator needs a retool of the team and tidy it up... along with its team members. Because everytime I read it, it seems to be in a mess with no article on 'said theory'. I was hoping that video idea can be used for theories and such, but that's a different subject.

Eh..

[lionsbarrage]

HAH, You always been arrogant that you're just a bloody joke. I've read those debates with dark soldier and despite the likely facts there, you like to go to the opposite way and try to have some unrealiable theories so you can set yourself apart from the others. If that isn't what you're trying to aim for, then I don't know what.

I might not be good at theories, but I'm helluva good at reading them. And so far, you hardly make sense at all that it's unbelievable. Key of Valor, despite people being negative towards him, actually make theories that are understandable.

Kingdom Hearts Investigator needs a retool of the team and tidy it up... along with its team members. Because everytime I read it, it seems to be in a mess with no article on 'said theory'. I was hoping that video idea can be used for theories and such, but that's a different subject.

Eh..


Theres a difference between arrogant and strong minded. I stand firm in my beliefs and way of thinking, but im not blinded by it, and i said that enough times i cant count em. I dont trye to set myself apart from alot of theories, i have my own opinions and scenarios of what my happen, just like anyone else, but i dont treat them like facts, BUt when others do treat stuff like facts i will point them out, but i never say the theories of others arent true.


I havent put up any lengthy theories in a long time, what i state in these debates are a much simplified version of it, and the theories are the much basic ones that are thought up first by Ansem lol. My theories are always based on logic but also put in what is possible and yet at the same time supported, above all else though not contradicited.


U can bas our team all u want, i know ur wrong, but if thats how u want to see it then fine. I know our team has good theorist, the others not soo much but the ones i know, are good at what they do.



I never said she wanted to be alone. I was putting out differences in motifs.
Roxas liked to have friends, yes, but it wasn't something he desired on the basic level. He wanted to exist on his own, be his own person, and he wanted to know that for himself. No one else had to say it to him.
With Namine it was different. She needed Sora to tell her she existed. She never needed to know on her own she did. She never seemed to want a Heart.
Hence, they're different.


Who would know wether or not Roxas wanted to have friends or not or somethign he desired? we really dont know much on that, if it wasnt for any friends he prolly feel exactly the same as Namine. WE cant tell for sure Namine wether or not she wanted somone to acknowledge her existence. Thats something soo deep from our eyes. Both never seemed to want a heart, and both longed for something different, everyones always different at some point, but on the major scale i would say they are like the same. Different yet same.

Actually, Namine's wants and needs add up with her already being barely a Nobody to begin with. It further throws her being a "Nobody" into question since she further breaks the rules, now on those of basic behavior.

And this isn't you saying it's all a matter of opinion, this is you cancelling out the debate because you think it's unimportant. So now who's being arrogant


Her wants and needs are just like anyones wants and needs, it doesnt add or take away her existence, its just those feelings that make her different in a emotional sense, but not a physical sense. It is a matter of opinion thats all debates, theories, views are. When things arent solid facts they are opinions, i have come to terms with this and accepting of anothers person views, that isnt arrogant, its open minded.



....so your still arrogant and over the pointless debates we've had a couple of times in the past you accuse me of being arrogant and denied that you ever were yet right here you say you are? This is exactly why I mention your 'hypocriticy'..and its another reason for me leaving the group. You just cannot accept the facts and constantly switch the wording around time, and time.


This has nothing to do with arrogance on my end, again i have my opnions on each matter , i suggest possible and most supportive theories just like the ones u do, but i dont treat stuff like facts, or make huge assumptions. im stong minded and harded headed but in a good way. Did i call u arrogant? did i say who was arrogant? no. I just said im not that arrogant. thats all. So once again ur hypocritcy is wrong. U want to leave the group? that is fine because honestly mystery made and admitted the mistake of recruiting u, but it was too late all we could do is hope u get urself kicked. Cause thats stubborn close minded vibe is not what we needed, I accept facts when they are facts, but alot of stuff isnt facts its assumptioons or circumstantioal evidence.

[Chrono Mizaki]

Theres a difference between arrogant and strong minded.


Too bad you're just the former.

I stand firm in my beliefs and way of thinking, but im not blinded by it, and i said that enough times i cant count em.


Standing in your firm belief is all good, but what's the point when it's badly-backed up and as Dark Soldier says, you twist and change words around. That isn't called firm belief, that's being called a sore loser. And YOU are a sore loser, lionbarrage.

I thought I was the sore loser... since I argued with you a lot and bash you. But eh, thanks for proving me wrong!

I dont trye to set myself apart from alot of theories, i have my own opinions and scenarios of what my happen, just like anyone else, but i dont treat them like facts, BUt when others do treat stuff like facts i will point them out, but i never say the theories of others arent true.

Opinions, fine. But have you heard of the saying 'A picture contain a thousand words'. You might have an opinion, you might present it, but you know what?

It doesn't do jack squat if the theory isn't backed up and is the equivalent of bullshit. And that's where the problem comes in, your logic is as sufferingangel described, a fanfic writer who tries to present it as credible theories.

Pretty much YOU need to be fired from the investigators.


U can bas our team all u want, i know ur wrong, but if thats how u want to see it then fine. I know our team has good theorist, the others not soo much but the ones i know, are good at what they do.

At least spell bias right.

And I might be wrong, but what I've said... I pretty much said it right on the mark. You're one of the biggest flaws in KH Investigators. You might have a good team of theorist, but you're not setting a good example as a good theorist.

That's why I suddenly switched off from your theories. But hey, I can be bias like you said. But I've said that you're an ignorant, arrogant member that you're just a few metres away from Juji's status

[DarkSoldier]

This has nothing to do with arrogance on my end, again i have my opnions on each matter , i suggest possible and most supportive theories just like the ones u do, but i dont treat stuff like facts, or make huge assumptions. im stong minded and harded headed but in a good way. Did i call u arrogant? did i say who was arrogant? no. I just said im not that arrogant. thats all. So once again ur hypocritcy is wrong. U want to leave the group? that is fine because honestly mystery made and admitted the mistake of recruiting u, but it was too late all we could do is hope u get urself kicked. Cause thats stubborn close minded vibe is not what we needed, I accept facts when they are facts, but alot of stuff isnt facts its assumptioons or circumstantioal evidence.
You really have no clue what your talking about.....time and time again you don't even remember half of the posts that you sent to me, do you? Countless times you've called me arrogant, stubborn, etc. What's funny is your being a complete hypocrite because you're one yourself. Your as stubborn as anyone else. Also, you don't treat ANYTHING I say as facts. It makes you more hardheaded. Time, and time again I've sent my sources, links of Nomura interviews and you continue to not accept and just twist it around, and so. Many people will agree with me on this. How about giving someone credit? Your too much of a hard head to even give people credit. As what Chrono said, you are a sore loser.....

Also, KH Investigators seems all over the place. They need to fix everything up, and remove some members. Also, the only member I ever talked to from that group is Key of Valor. He was the one who got me the invitation..not Mystery. Sometimes I have debates with him but the thing is HE MAKES SENSE. He doesn't take stuff from his rear end. He gets his sources and proves very good points to me. Mystery is another person that I can't seem to be bothered with. He's another person that can't give when credit is due, though I can give him (KOV) credit when credit is due. When me and Key are having debates you suddenly come out of the blue and start repeating everything Key is saying...its quite annoying and sad. I don't need a parrot to tell me what I've already heard. I don't know how its possible for someone like you to be a 'Co-leader' of a team when you are quite the sore loser. Also, as Chrono said, maybe YOU are the one that needs to be kicked out of the team because sadly to say, your just as stubborn as anyone else.

[SufferingAngel]

Another flaw I'd like to raise about the KHInvestigators is that -

Dudes, come up with your own theories and have the balls to debate them with the theory-makers themselves :D otherwise you're just a pathetic bunch of cowards stealing theories from other places and posting them up here.
No one ever thought there was anything wrong with that around these parts?

[Chrono Mizaki]

Another flaw I'd like to raise about the KHInvestigators is that -

Dudes, come up with your own theories and have the balls to debate them with the theory-makers themselves :D otherwise you're just a pathetic bunch of cowards stealing theories from other places and posting them up here.
No one ever thought there was anything wrong with that around these parts?

Honestly, the reason I'm ranting on them about that is that they pretty much lied to me, lionbarrage saying 'KHinsider are crap at making theories' (and I got the post to prove that, so think lionbarrage). I was an idiot for believing them, despite having some form of dislike towards him. Even if you, sufferingangel, told me. I would still rant at them because I abhor liars who doesn't give credit AND have the gall to copy/paste theories.

The Theory team should've an sub-section of the Writing Team, then it would have more harsher restrictions on these kind of cases (and a uphold of quality in these theories). But I think it still wouldn't make a difference, because it's a broken team.

SufferingAngel, Darksoldier. You should make a complaint in the forum issue section because at this rate, lionbarrage just proved how utterly broken is the theory team and for that, it's just bringing down the forum.

[lionsbarrage]

Too bad you're just the former

Well if thats how u see it, but i know its wrong.


Standing in your firm belief is all good, but what's the point when it's badly-backed up and as Dark Soldier says, you twist and change words around. That isn't called firm belief, that's being called a sore loser. And YOU are a sore loser, lionbarrage.

I thought I was the sore loser... since I argued with you a lot and bash you. But eh, thanks for proving me wrong!


Ay theory in the end is possible when nothing contradicts it, i myself though go for ones that do have support and as i have i said i have my theories that are fully explained, some posted some not, and one thing is for dure they do make sense are fully backed and logical, i have more than enough people that can back me up on that, even ones that arent even on the team. I do not twist any words around, i dont make the mistake of assuming i said one thing and then going on and on blissfully and then blaming the other person for changing the subject or w/e. This has nothing to do with being a loser because im not any loser in this.


Opinions, fine. But have you heard of the saying 'A picture contain a thousand words'. You might have an opinion, you might present it, but you know what?

It doesn't do jack squat if the theory isn't backed up and is the equivalent of bullshit. And that's where the problem comes in, your logic is as sufferingangel described, a fanfic writer who tries to present it as credible theories.

Pretty much YOU need to be fired from the investigators.


Any theory is fine, even if it has no support thats the thing, wether it is likely to happen or not is the question and that comes at each person different view and opinion. mY theories though are backed up and have quite a bit support, so u are very wrong there. Wether it is true or not is still again up i nthe air thats the whole point. U can bash me and say i need to be fired, but i know ur just mad and sore, like always. I dont need u telling us what to do thats for sure chrono.


At least spell bias right.

And I might be wrong, but what I've said... I pretty much said it right on the mark. You're one of the biggest flaws in KH Investigators. You might have a good team of theorist, but you're not setting a good example as a good theorist.

That's why I suddenly switched off from your theories. But hey, I can be bias like you said. But I've said that you're an ignorant, arrogant member that you're just a few metres away from Juji's status



The word in question was actually bash. And again i may spell a fews words wrong at times, but again this isnt school where spelling counts, get over it. What u said is nothing more than BS. I know it is, and so do alot others not even counting the team, this doesnt go for me but for alot of what u post, sure theres gonna be ones in support. Ur not on our team and sicne weve been in a social group status u dont see what we write, or what we do, so u can judge poorly or biased, it really doesnt matter, to us.


Another flaw I'd like to raise about the KHInvestigators is that -

Dudes, come up with your own theories and have the balls to debate them with the theory-makers themselves otherwise you're just a pathetic bunch of cowards stealing theories from other places and posting them up here.
No one ever thought there was anything wrong with that around these parts?

JUst for the record we never stole anything. We have searchers that go around and look at theories but we never steal them or use them as our own. I do remember this when it first happened, we never took credit for it and we gave links to the original post, since its a different site why go thru al lthe trouble to post about it? it be the same about disucssing it even if it wasnt posted on ours, yet only talked about. Nothing was actually wrong with, but because someone whined about it, we ourselves changed it so that no one would post theories and merly just the link.



Honestly, the reason I'm ranting on them about that is that they pretty much lied to me, lionbarrage saying 'KHinsider are crap at making theories' (and I got the post to prove that, so think lionbarrage). I was an idiot for believing them, despite having some form of dislike towards him. Even if you, sufferingangel, told me. I would still rant at them because I abhor liars who doesn't give credit AND have the gall to copy/paste theories.

The Theory team should've an sub-section of the Writing Team, then it would have more harsher restrictions on these kind of cases (and a uphold of quality in these theories). But I think it still wouldn't make a difference, because it's a broken team.

SufferingAngel, Darksoldier. You should make a complaint in the forum issue section because at this rate, lionbarrage just proved how utterly broken is the theory team and for that, it's just bringing down the forum.


Shows how much u really know. As i said we didnt steal theories, we gave creidt always when stuff wasnt thought by us or where it was desrved, we have no tolerance for theories. we are never a formal group thats why it was just a thread for us even for the orignal team way back then. We even had mods that would come in and still do, we didnt do anything wrong.

U can make a complaint if u wish, it doesnt matter, that issue before was resovled and there is nothing we have to hide or doing wrong at present.


You really have no clue what your talking about.....time and time again you don't even remember half of the posts that you sent to me, do you? Countless times you've called me arrogant, stubborn, etc. What's funny is your being a complete hypocrite because you're one yourself. Your as stubborn as anyone else. Also, you don't treat ANYTHING I say as facts. It makes you more hardheaded. Time, and time again I've sent my sources, links of Nomura interviews and you continue to not accept and just twist it around, and so. Many people will agree with me on this. How about giving someone credit? Your too much of a hard head to even give people credit. As what Chrono said, you are a sore loser.....

Also, KH Investigators seems all over the place. They need to fix everything up, and remove some members. Also, the only member I ever talked to from that group is Key of Valor. He was the one who got me the invitation..not Mystery. Sometimes I have debates with him but the thing is HE MAKES SENSE. He doesn't take stuff from his rear end. He gets his sources and proves very good points to me. Mystery is another person that I can't seem to be bothered with. He's another person that can't give when credit is due, though I can give him (KOV) credit when credit is due. When me and Key are having debates you suddenly come out of the blue and start repeating everything Key is saying...its quite annoying and sad. I don't need a parrot to tell me what I've already heard. I don't know how its possible for someone like you to be a 'Co-leader' of a team when you are quite the sore loser. Also, as Chrono said, maybe YOU are the one that needs to be kicked out of the team because sadly to say, your just as stubborn as anyone else.


Stubborn can be good or bad. But i do know what im talking about, when i repeat things key said i merly agree with his statments because we do see eye to eye on alot of things, we have our own opinions but we accept each others views and theories. I remember alot of the posts i sent u i take the time to read what u say and respond accordingly. I dont treat what u say as facts, u do. Thats the whole probelm from start to end. that and the close mindedness. Alot of stuff u give sources and all is support at best. Not clear cut facts. And some that maybe may not be fully contradicitng something else, it could make both ways true. Not saying all of it is wrong im saying of the possibilities. I am not key, i cant state what i want i npeaceful or detailed way as him. Wehn i do put the effort into my long theories people see why. I dont just talk out of my rear end, that i assure u, just as u have support, i have support for me as well, but u choose to not accept antyhing or anyones theories other than ur own, even if u say u do ur typing says otherwise.


Also the debates actually started with u and me, not key. Key was the one who joined in and it became a 3 way. Also key may have invited u, but it was mystery who makles the final decision over who is in and out because he is the only one with the power to do so. U are soo blinded by ur ways u think im in the wrong here, or im a sore loser and all that junk. Well u have ur oput in it, but it isnt true i nthe least. I may be stubborn, but not ignorant or arrogant, and if im stubborn its in the right because i wont just keep my mouth shut about things i know people say are wrong or misguided or treat assumptions as facts.

[Xuan]

Stealing theories? Unless I'd mistaken I mentioned in that post before I edited it that the theory was not mine, and I praised the theory because there's some fresh idea in it, and this is what I get? Stealing theories? I wonder who the hell is the real stubborn-head, grudge holder, persistent complaining, arrogant, rude and unjust when the TEAM as well as I apologized straight, did the proper procedures according to your rules so as to 'give you credit', and this is what you do?

Chrono Mizaki, I have not checked the theories section or whatsoever because I'm lazy and always busy, but I do know one thing. When it comes to debate every single one of you, us, and everything from the almighty human being to the molecules of cell that stubborn is why we have debates. If we go along and say hey, you're right, I think you're absolutely correct, sounds reasonable yeah, then you might as well find a fan club that admires you totally, gives next-to-useless comments and enjoy yourself in the pool.

The fact that everyone cannot understand that he believes his thing, you believe yours and vice versa is a really big problem. You don't like it, you debate it out, talk over it, discussed over it, flamed the hell outta each other when you don't like it is FINE. Just remember we all believe ourselves most, that it's useless trying to convince each other because it's pointless, exhausting, with nonsensical result when the discussion turned into a weapon to hurt each other.

SA, you being the main villain here when it comes to turning theories into your weapon to prove your superiority over another whether you like it or not.

lionsbarrage, keep your head down and ignore when you can see a debate goes haywire. No posting same theories/points/etc. twice, quoting is fine but no posting the same thing twice at all. And since we all know that using close to 'bad' words will just give the others a chance to turn it against you, try avoid using it. No need to act terribly nice, I don't like you being terribly nice, plain horrible to think there's a general sleeping six feet under but avoid the words.

Chrono Mizaki. If I'm familiar with the rules, I think any personal comments that is directed at the other with almost no contact with the topic discussed should be regarded as spam. If you wanna call lionsbarrage how broken he's leading the team, how bad an example he's showing blah blah blah, as you said, report to your superiors and let them sort things out. Or even better, if you want those comments to be 'inofficial' 'secretive' 'I-wanna-hide-them-cuz-they're-plain-bad-and-non-productive' then please use the PM. I understand that we don't usually stick 100% to the rules, 50 or ignore it sometimes maybe but this is getting ridiculous.

And if you're human and all, you should know that things work both sides, left and right, a little there somewhere here, that my comments also provide that space on both sides so use your intellect to judge things. No more insults.

[Chrono Mizaki]

Well if thats how u see it, but i know its wrong.


Yep, keep blocking your ears, deary ;D

Ay theory in the end is possible when nothing contradicts it, i myself though go for ones that do have support and as i have i said i have my theories that are fully explained, some posted some not, and one thing is for dure they do make sense are fully backed and logical, i have more than enough people that can back me up on that, even ones that arent even on the team. I do not twist any words around, i dont make the mistake of assuming i said one thing and then going on and on blissfully and then blaming the other person for changing the subject or w/e. This has nothing to do with being a loser because im not any loser in this.

Then let's hear it from the people themselves. Let's hear it from even MysteryRoxas himself. I'm not here to bash you for the hell of it, lionbarrage. I'm here because there's something horribly gone wrong with the team in its theories. If anyone else love your theories, then I'll apologise and step back down, and I won't harrass you again. I'll still keep my opinion of it being broken.

But if no one stands up (no, Xuan's opinion alone won't change this around) to say it's good or w/e. Then I will press this further. Don't think I aren't, but like you, lionbarrage. I'm a sore loser and stubborn. But like you said, it can be good and bad.


Any theory is fine, even if it has no support thats the thing, wether it is likely to happen or not is the question and that comes at each person different view and opinion. mY theories though are backed up and have quite a bit support, so u are very wrong there. Wether it is true or not is still again up i nthe air thats the whole point. U can bash me and say i need to be fired, but i know ur just mad and sore, like always. I dont need u telling us what to do thats for sure chrono.

I'm just mad and sore ;D No, I can't tell you what you should do. If I could, I would tell you to sling your hook. Yes, everyone can have different opinions and yes, we can all allow to express them. But what is the point of an opinion even if it isn't backed up.

Any theory is fine, even it has no support?

No, no theory is fine without support. A theory needs support, that's the whole point of a theory. I admire you standing your ground, but you got to know when you should need to give up.


The word in question was actually bash. And again i may spell a fews words wrong at times, but again this isnt school where spelling counts, get over it. What u said is nothing more than BS. I know it is, and so do alot others not even counting the team, this doesnt go for me but for alot of what u post, sure theres gonna be ones in support. Ur not on our team and sicne weve been in a social group status u dont see what we write, or what we do, so u can judge poorly or biased, it really doesnt matter, to us.

Then let's see the one who support you, then, lionbarrage? I'll shut up if mysterorxas comes to the rescue, but until now, I will press it further. You might think mine is BS, but I'm right so far? Why don't you show your so-called theories to the public instead of keeping it in the social group... unless Dark Soldier tells me that is 'BS' as well, in which case: Don't bother.

I know I'm not on the team and I know I ain't a good theorist. But guess what, I'm a critic. Sure, I might be bashing down on your negative side. But has your good side shown? No. Like I said, you're just a joke.


JUst for the record we never stole anything. We have searchers that go around and look at theories but we never steal them or use them as our own. I do remember this when it first happened, we never took credit for it and we gave links to the original post, since its a different site why go thru al lthe trouble to post about it? it be the same about disucssing it even if it wasnt posted on ours, yet only talked about. Nothing was actually wrong with, but because someone whined about it, we ourselves changed it so that no one would post theories and merly just the link.

I have never ever seen you post a link, ever. If you can prove me, then I apologise. But I search around the forum a lot, and where you discuss your theories in topic, I never seen you post a link. What do you expect people to do, go through your KH investigator topic?





Shows how much u really know. As i said we didnt steal theories, we gave creidt always when stuff wasnt thought by us or where it was desrved, we have no tolerance for theories. we are never a formal group thats why it was just a thread for us even for the orignal team way back then. We even had mods that would come in and still do, we didnt do anything wrong.


tl;dr: Prove it to me

U can make a complaint if u wish, it doesnt matter, that issue before was resovled and there is nothing we have to hide or doing wrong at present.


Not in my domain, I say. They can make a complain if they want, but the fact is: I don't like liars and so far, you're nothing more than a liar and a thief.

Stealing theories? Unless I'd mistaken I mentioned in that post before I edited it that the theory was not mine, and I praised the theory because there's some fresh idea in it, and this is what I get? Stealing theories? I wonder who the hell is the real stubborn-head, grudge holder, persistent complaining, arrogant, rude and unjust when the TEAM as well as I apologized straight, did the proper procedures according to your rules so as to 'give you credit', and this is what you do?

I don't see the proof, but what do you expect people to do. Browse through the topic? It seems that so far, the rule isn't being upheld.

Chrono Mizaki, I have not checked the theories section or whatsoever because I'm lazy and always busy, but I do know one thing. When it comes to debate every single one of you, us, and everything from the almighty human being to the molecules of cell that stubborn is why we have debates. If we go along and say hey, you're right, I think you're absolutely correct, sounds reasonable yeah, then you might as well find a fan club that admires you totally, gives next-to-useless comments and enjoy yourself in the pool.

No one bloody asks to be correct. Sure, they can debate back and I've seen that on KHi. Yes, I have seen stuff such as 'I AGREE WITH THIS, RAIN' or 'RAIN, I LOVE YOU. THIS THEORY IS AWESHUM" (sorry to use you as an example, SA. But it does happen a lot), but you cannot deny the fact that it's actually backed up.

Yes, we can all be stubborn and present our theory (in which case, KOV. No one might like him on KHI, but I can appreciate his stubbornness to present a theory). lionbarrage, on the other hand, is just a parrot (an equivalent of an african grey) who just repeats everything. That isn't a theorist, that's a parrot.

SA, you being the main villain here when it comes to turning theories into your weapon to prove your superiority over another whether you like it or not.

Wha? There are more worse people who use theories as weapon and trust me, it doesn't get nice. Besides, you can call KoV an equivalent of SA on the KHI. But the fact is: She isn't that bad -_- You're treating her like a Sonic Classic nut who believes Sonic should be 2D and no humans allowed =P

lionsbarrage, keep your head down and ignore when you can see a debate goes haywire. No posting same theories/points/etc. twice, quoting is fine but no posting the same thing twice at all. And since we all know that using close to 'bad' words will just give the others a chance to turn it against you, try avoid using it. No need to act terribly nice, I don't like you being terribly nice, plain horrible to think there's a general sleeping six feet under but avoid the words.

The problem is, lionbarrage haven't exactly stood up for himself and being far too nice... even against me. Lionbarrage, there is a time where you have to stand up and being mean to me. It's a way of the forum. Sure, don't call them 'names'. But meh =P

Chrono Mizaki. If I'm familiar with the rules, I think any personal comments that is directed at the other with almost no contact with the topic discussed should be regarded as spam. If you wanna call lionsbarrage how broken he's leading the team, how bad an example he's showing blah blah blah, as you said, report to your superiors and let them sort things out. Or even better, if you want those comments to be 'inofficial' 'secretive' 'I-wanna-hide-them-cuz-they're-plain-bad-and-non-productive' then please use the PM. I understand that we don't usually stick 100% to the rules, 50 or ignore it sometimes maybe but this is getting ridiculous.


What? SA, lionbarrage and DS has derailed my topic. MY TOPIC. It's derailed and it doesn't matter to me now. But Xuan, they will be heard and they will be put on public. That way, lionbarrage can have the team to defend its status and say "WE'RE PROUD OF OUR TEAM". It's not going to be resorted to the PM.

So far, no rules has been broken apart from the: Spamming. But hey, my topic, mine to derail. But not mine to flame and so far, there isn't flaming. It's call honest opinion/truth.

But then again, lb has the gall to call me bias/bashing ;D

[Xuan]

Ok, done. Hopefully whoever who talks about this in the topic again will get your immediate er, ban or whatever. The enough is enough point, ta-ta,s and whatever. Whatever. Oh, damn the caplocks, they're stuck...