just throwing this out there...

[Riku in the Dawn]

do you think its possible that Axel is Rikus Nobody??
i mean fine thats kind of out of wack, but i mean stop and think about it for a sec.
before the end of kh1, Riku entered the world of Darkness with Mickey. according to how the game was played and how its described, Ansem[Xenahorts Heartless] controlled Rikus body letting the Darkness inhabit him. He then pushed out Rikus heart[not literally but figuratively], then thats basically when your done with Riku in kh1 til you see him again trying to close the door, which he later then passes out in the world of Darkness, then reawakens, and his story continues from there for CoM and kh2.
But since Square gave special condition Nobodys for Sora[Roxas] and Kairi[Namine], could they have given Riku his special condition Nobody as Axel.
If so my theory for Axel having his name like that is that DiZ found him before he found Riku, and in so he found out he was a Nobody[not by looking at him but by talking to him]. He then started to see that Axel was a little on the evil side, and then decided to give up on him, then Xemnas found him and brought him in, but since he didn't have a name he gave him the name Axel, who knows why but he did, and shortly after he brought in Roxas. After that Axel and Roxas became friends. However its not til Axel dies that we understand his purpose. AND one of the definitions for DAWN is to start to understand or to be understood. AND since i believe that Rikus element is Dawn, or it has been proved i mean with the name of his keyblade in kh2 and all, the same meaning could be given to Axel.
AND also i dont think Axel was full blown evil, like everyone in the organization but was tricked by Xemnas, and when he found Roxas, he wanted to help him find his person, but in that lost his friend.

SO...what do you think of that possibility?? I mean i know its out there, like way out there, but yeah i think its pretty full proof.

[Cloud_Strife]

Emm...Nice but then Axel would have been a Keyblade weilder

[Riku in the Dawn]

Hmmm...true
Maybe he is just dosen't use the keyblade?
But yeah true.....

[4thkeybladeholder]

but arent they supposed to look alike?

[Riku in the Dawn]

i dont think so...but maybe they do, except for the hair i guess, ive never checked

[Unkown-Aelix]

uhhhmm I see what your saying about Riku, but i dont think its axel.

For one thing the hair, of course. I also think that Axel is a bit more thin and Riku is a bit more heavily built. and Axel would be a Keyblade weilder too, as Roxas was a keyblade weilder because Sora was a keyblade weilder.

True, Riku did enter the Darkness and stuff but i think that Square would have hinted twords a Riku Nobody by now. Or maybe their saving it so that there will only be a Riku Soulless.


also, their personalities are very similar. Xemnas is almost the same as the Heartless Xehanort and Roxas is almost the same as Sora, and Namine and Kairi.


one more thing:
If you take out the x in the Orginixation's names you get their old name see?
Vexen-Even
Roxas-Sora
Axel-Ale

i think some one already worked it out, but you get the idea.

Axel dosent make out into Riku and Riku dosent have a catch phrase like
"Got it memorized?"

Riku dosent have a catch phrase at all.

[Riku in the Dawn]

yeah i see your point. i dont think body matters much, its more of the personality. but i do think one of these enemies had to be foremd from Riku, thats why i kinda started leaning towrds it being Axel.

[vanilla bear]

was roxas really a special condition nobody though? i know namine could be considered that but roxas is tough... and i think giving riku a nobody might be overdoing it on square's part.. sora and kairi both having nobodies fits well because their nobodies have that bond just like Sora and Kairi do, ya know? i don't know if i'd want square to throw riku and his nobody in as a third wheel

[Khaos]

Riku Wielded the Darkness, but never sacrificed his heart or soul for it, unlike Xehanort. Therefore, he never became a Heartless or a Nobodie.

[Axel_Fire_Wheel]

Exactly, Namine is the only special nobody. Roxas is a nobody because of when sora turned into a heartless in radiant garden. But because of Sora's short time bein a heartless, Roxas has no memory of being sora.

[Khaos]

Id like to know, however, how Namine was created. As far as we know, nobodies only come into exsistance when heartless were born. Since Namine was the Nobodie of Kairi...Either she became a Heartless at some time, or theres more then one way to create Nobodies.

[Riku in the Dawn]

yeah but if u read the ansem reports for kh2 it says that namine and roxas are special condtion nobodies. i know its overdoing it wtih riku, but it was just a thought.

[vanilla bear]

Ansem Report #10
Sora went to sleep in order to recover the memories he lost in Castle Oblivion. It would take quite some time to bring back all the memories he had created in his lifetime.

But Organization XIII held sway over Castle Oblivion.

Sora would need to be kept someplace more secure.

I persuaded Namine to move the slumbering Sora to Twilight Town for safekeeping.

Namine.

As I have written here before, she is a most unusual being.

Born of the same process as a Nobody, but lacking virtually all the elements of a Nobody.

Perhaps she continues drawing in hopes of capturing that which she lacks: the memories of others, especially Sora.

I have arrived at a hypothesis.

I believe that Namine was born as a special type of Nobody when Sora attacked himself with the Keyblade, causing his and Kairi's hearts to leave their bodies simultaneously.

Namine emerged as Kairi's Nobody...but the body and soul necessary to exist as a Nobody belonged to Sora.

When a person's heart is stolen, a Heartless is born with no sense of self, and the body and soul left behind give rise to a Nobody.

But what if one willingly releases one's heart from one's body?

Sora and Xehanort retained their selfhood even after becoming Heartless.

Then there are Kairi and Namine.

Kairi was exceptional for having had no darkness within her heart. Also exceptional was that her heart, once freed, migrated to a new vessel-Sora.

The combination of these two theoretically unlikely exceptions may be behind this anomaly.

There are matters I must attend to while Sora is sleeping.

A new ally has appeared on the scene: Riku.

[vanilla bear]

riku your theory could make a lot of sense... in that part, sora ATTACKED HIMSELF it says, so he sacrificed himself... riku also did the same thing when he gave himself to the darkness to defeat roxas... very interesting..

[Khaos]

Hmm, interesting...Riku appeared though, to help Sora regain his Memories. Helping Diz would achieve it, since he was the one who confronted soras Nobody(Roxas).

That Report raises alot of questions though...

[4thkeybladeholder]

man i get headaches every time i try to understand what there planning and what the hidden stuff in kh1&2 are about. but your right it raises questions, but when he gave himself to the darkness, he didnt lose his heart for a second though, right?

[vanilla bear]

but sora gave himself in and became a heartless to help someone else... riku did the exact same thing so it would be very reasonable for riku to have a nobody... maybe when you give yourself over in order to save another person you create a "special" nobody like diz is saying

[Khaos]

When did Riku activity sacrifice his heart to save someone though? That was the difference in both Kairi and Soras case.

[vanilla bear]

when riku tried to take on roxas he was defeated... that's when he decided to give himself to the darkness so he'd have the power to beat roxas and bring him back to diz so diz would be able to speed up sora's memory retrieval and bring him out of his slumber... the whole reason riku didn't want sora to know about him was because he was ashamed that he turned to the darkness to help his best friend.. sora wouldn't be able to live with that guilt

[4thkeybladeholder]

but when you think about it, they never even really showed a hint of a riku-nobody, so were off pure assumptions here, which makes it all that more confusing....... but i dont think there is a riku nobody because he never lost his heart and sora lost all 7 hearts of the princesses.

[Khaos]

He tapped into his Darkness, letting it partially take control, not completely.

[vanilla bear]

which might even give us another reason for riku to have a special nobody don't you think?

[Khaos]

Well...Except for Kairi, no one has been known to create a Nobody without having a Heartless counterpart. The Reason for Kairi, is that she had no Darkness whatsoever in her heart. Riku, however, KNOWS he has Darkness, states it, fights it and learns to live with it.

So really, it would require Riku giving up his Heart and retaining a Heartless form. As far as I know, when he took Ansems looks once again in KH2, it was only his looks, not his Heartless creation as well.

[Riku in the Dawn]

True..I mean i based all my thoughts and assumptions on the fact that Kairi's Nobody is Namine and it says its a special Nobody because it used Sora as an intermediary, then Roxas, which is Soras Nobody, is also a special condition, because when he gave himself up he was a heartless for a very short time then used Kairi's heart as an intermediary, blah blah..something like that. As I remember seeing it, Riku's body was under control of Xemnas in KH1 so Ansem could be born, or inhabit a body, im not sure but i think thats how it happened, or atleast how i remembered it. Then Riku gave himself up to go into the Realm of Darnkness with king Mickey to close the door so Sora could lock it, however, i think when Riku did that, he gave his heart up[obviously not literally but figurativelly as he never created a Heartless]. So my theory for that is that when he gave his heart up, he tried to get rid of the darkness, however when he passes out shortly after closing the door with Mickey, Rikus heart created a different persona. It created Axel, the way it happened was that since his heart tried to get rid of the darkness all at once, yet it was weak and fragile while in the realm of darkness, he passed out, then since he just got rid of all the darkness it had to go somewhere, so it created the character of Axel. I mean it dosent make much sense, like it is a little farfetched, but it does have its meaning in tact.
Thought Axel looks nothing like Riku, have his personallity at all, or even weilds a keyblade, i think it is possible. It may not be true, but it is a little possible.

[vanilla bear]

maybe it's not necessarily axel that's riku's nobody because i didn't feel any sort of hint towards it.. but maybe that's one of the new characters never introduced before will be.. riku's nobody, coming from the horizon in that secrect ending

[Cloud_Strife]

@Unknown-Aelix-Uhh don't think that "x" theory is right
Xemnas-Zehanort? (spelled wrong..)
If ou put your theory enmas? nemas? menas?

[vanilla bear]

xemnas goes with ansem... the x theory is true

[Roxas The key to destiny]

its true its all part of the x factor

[darkheart4ever]

I don't see how Kairi has a noboidy and I'm quite confused about that. Can someone care to enlighten me?

[vanilla bear]

darkheart4ever... during kh1 kairi's heart was in sora's body... she was a heartless for basically the entire game... when a heartless is created, a nobody is made.. so namine came to be

[vanilla bear]

khaos, the way these games are set up ya never know... i wouldn't be too sure in that theory, just like i'm not too sure of my own... there are surprises all over the place

[Riku in the Dawn]

yeah, shes a special condition Nobody, and so is Roxas. Since Sora was a Heartless for a very short time, Roxas had no recollection of his beings memories[thats also another reason DiZ needed Roxas, to finish the restoration of Soras memories]. So Namine and Roxas are both 'special condition Nobodies'. Thats why also i think Riku has either a 'special condtion Nobody' or a Heartless? Thats also another reason i tended to lean towards it being Axel, even though there is no indication, they never tal kmuch about Axels former being, so it rose thoughts in my head.

[vanilla bear]

waaait a second... maybe the mysterious figure we see in the haze at sunset horizons is riku's nobody..? i think riku has one, to be honest, because of the whole giving himself to the darkness to help bring roxas back...since he willingly did that he may have created a special condition nobody.. it would make sense, in my opinion

[Riku in the Dawn]

thank you vanilla bear, like im pretty sure he wouldve created one, but idk why i lean towards Axel being it. my reason still stands since Rikus element is dawn, and his keyblade is called way to the dawn, and his storyline is dawn, you basically associate; RIKU = DAWN.
i kind of saw a similar storyline behind Axel in a way. and another definiton for Dawn is to understand or to be understood finally; and throughout the whole game i had the impression that Axel wasnt being understood whit what he did and stuff but at the end its understood.
so yeah..

[vanilla bear]

let me throw this out there too... riku and sora are best friends... roxas' best friend is who..axel
hmmmm

[Riku in the Dawn]

yesssssss...
thank you...
now even more of a reason for me to lean towards Axel as being Rikus Nobody.
i still think Riku would have a Heartless, or maybe w.e the new enemy is["souless"].
but yeah if Axel is Rikus Nobody then my 2 favorite characters would be considered 1 and my 3rd is Roxas but that includes Sora too lol

[vanilla bear]

haha, well if axel was riku's nobody it would really help us to understand why axel and roxas seemed to have such a special bond...maybe originally you were just hoping axel was riku's nobody so there'd be a chance he'd make a return in kh3 but now there's some possible evidence

[Riku in the Dawn]

no actually i kind of always thought that after i beat the game and read all the Ansem Reports from that game. Riku was always my favorite character, and it fell on me pretty strange that he didn't have a nobody or heartless. and also even though Axel is one of my favorite characters, his story was never too clear for me, but it seemed to me that by his characteristics, his original being had to follow a path of dawn.
but yeah also i would love to see him come back and be a part of riku.

[vanilla bear]

yeah, i mean, don't you think axel played a pretty big part in kh2? i do... it is kind of odd how there isn't more of a backstory to him, other than being roxas' best friend... he saved sora at the end of kh2 when they were overwhelmed right before the world that never was... there's gotta be more to axel and i think the best idea would be make him riku's nobody...

[Riku in the Dawn]

EXACTLY!!
yeah he played a big part..but it would give him a bigger and would probably give him a better backstory if he was Rikus Nobody.

[vanilla bear]

lol not too many other people seem to have any thoughts on this... just us. oh well, we're getting somewhere.. if what we're saying is true, then you can look forward to a lot more axel in kh3 i would imagine... i mean, riku gave into the darkness, he had to have given 'birth' to a nobody.. who better than axel

[Riku in the Dawn]

and if so i want everyone in the world and their mamas to come to me and give me a hug and be liek thank you for having an ADD mind that thinks outside the bun, haha i made fun of taco bell lol but not kool of me, seriously taco bell rocks.

[Riku in the Dawn]

ooo and quick note, sorry to double post but yeah, it could be a possibility that the lost 2 refers to the lost nobody and heartless of riku? maybe??
but i think Axel alone would be enough, no need for a heartless also.

[vanilla bear]

yeah i would think axel would be enough to cover for one of the lost 2, but i don't think the heartless would cut it... maybe Even is #2 of the lost 2... maybe

[Riku in the Dawn]

maybe, perhaps..i dont see a flaw in that, maybe it wont refer to Rikus Nobody and refer to ZAexion and Vexen who i say will be key in kh3, even though riku thought that xemnas was the last OXIII member..he was a little wrong in that i think..lol

[vanilla bear]

hahah, right.. okay, so we're making some progres with these lost 2 members...zexion only appears in riku's story, and vexen, ansem says, was almost more intrigured by the research than xehanort was.

[Riku in the Dawn]

yeah probability the Ienzo[Zexion] and Even[Vexen] were more intrigued cause they knew he was either faking, or that if they help him recover it if he wasn't faking knowing it would be easier to continue their plans and/or they knew there had to be an Ultimate Keyblade[Original keyblade or lockblade] and that only Xenahort knew whereit could be.

[vanilla bear]

right, and now those 3 are after the big ass keyblade the center knight was holding... those 3 could be the chasers then

[Riku in the Dawn]

probably, but then how could any of them be realted to or connected to Sora Riku or Kairi?
i think theyre good candidates for the lost two category but not that those 3 are chasers. Xenahort fine extremely hgih possibility that he is, but Ienzo and Even?? doubtful...

[vanilla bear]

well ienzo does have the connection with riku and even, well i'm not too sure there... if we were to just know who the knights were, not their actual names or anything, just what they stand for, things would clear up... sticking with riku's nobody being axel is the best idea so far.. it makes the most sense

[Riku in the Dawn]

yupp i think i made a good point arising that thought..im pretty sure noone really wouldve thought of it, ofcourse the mind of a 16[almost 17 woot]year old with ADD did lol
i so hope im right so then i give Nomura a hugg and be liek yeah i knew i was right.

[vanilla bear]

well you mentioned it and then i started thinking about why the heck axel was so bonded to roxas... roxas was sora's nobody and then bam it hit me.. axel was in the game way too much to not be something more than just a nobody

[Riku in the Dawn]

Exactly, he was important in so many ways, but at the same time not mentioned that much. It seemed like he wasnt even considered important. For me it was more of the characteristics at the end, it seemed that he chose a path of Dawn, and so did Riku, then thats when it hit me. After that it was all the other evidence we've stated, and also the fact that he dosen't have a real backstory.

[vanilla bear]

right, they both chose to act out of goodeness in the end.. they did take the path of dawn... and it's not like square to introduce a character and then not explain their significance... nomura's smarter than that

[Riku in the Dawn]

yupp..it would be un-Nomura to not explain Axel, i mean unless theres nothing else to Axel than what happened in KH2 and were wrong, but i doubt thats it to Axel.

[vanilla bear]

we are in agreement... other than FM is there a rumored filler game that you know of? i'm hoping that there's not so i don't miss out on anything

[Riku in the Dawn]

not that i know of, i can look into my source guy, and resources ive always looked into, but i doubt it, hopefully something will be announced by march for the release of kh2fm

[vanilla bear]

yeah, i just wanna get my hands on a copy of fm if that comes to the US... i really don't want there to be any more stuff on gameboy though, b/c i don't own a gameboy and i'm not going to get one just for information

[Riku in the Dawn]

yeah when CoM came out i had a gameboy but i didnt know about it, then the day i trade in my gameboy and payed $150 for my psp i find out theres a CoM and never played it only know what ive read and have heard of.

[vanilla bear]

haha, that sucks... if they do make another filler game i'll just be left out of the loop until it gets posted online... man, we need another breakthrough theory, haha

[Riku in the Dawn]

lol well the filler game should come out for psp or ps2.
and i can post any of my theories that i have, but most of them deal with the keyblade being used for chaos instead of goodness

[vanilla bear]

lol and then that leads us back into the game being darker... i'll think about some more stuff regarding the person sora met in kh1 in relation to the hazy figure in sunset horizons

[Riku in the Dawn]

ok...im going to clear up all this theory i have with axel being rikus nobody and fill it in a good theory...

[vanilla bear]

ok good idea.. are you going to start a new thread with it? post what we've come up with so far and some other possibilities?

[Riku in the Dawn]

yeah i will i have it all written down in a note pad with all my theories, theres 5 good ones, but none of them are full proof cause we dont know much except for whats been confirmed. but w.e ill create one with the one i think is best. till then i hope people read this thread and post what they think of my theory of axel being rikus nobody.

[vanilla bear]

alright.. well i'll be gone for a few hours but more than likely i'll on around 11 until 3 or so in the morning

[Riku]

I don't know how this got to so many posts.

Anyway, the X theory is true and as Xikru has pointed out, Riku's Nobody would be called Xikru or something similar. Axel's original name is Ael, Ale, Eal, Ela, Lae, or Lea.

And Riku never had a Heartless or a Nobody. Ansem (Xehanort's Heartless) took control of Riku's body as Riku gave into the darkness, but his heart never actually left his body. If it did, then he wouldn't have become whole again (which he was) without someone else's heart.

As my signature says, Riku had no Heartless and no Nobody.